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Give Teachers, Administrators Guns in Schools, Pa. Lawmakers Say

A Pennsylvania State Rep says that with the proper training and certification, teachers should be allowed to carry guns in classrooms.

 

By Eric Boehm | PA Independent

HARRISBURG – Armed guards may soon patrol outside Pennsylvania’s public schools, and the teachers may be armed, as well.

A pair of Republican lawmakers in the state House are working on legislation to make Pennsylvania schools safer.  But while all sides agree on the need to improve school safety, some worry about bringing guns into schools, regardless of the lawmakers’ intent.

State Rep. Greg Lucas, R-Erie, plans to sponsor legislation that would make it legal for teachers and school administrators to carry weapons in the classroom, provided they are licensed to carry a firearm and have valid and current certification under state law.

As we consider ways to improve school safety, I believe we have to consider trusting school personnel to serve as a first line of defense. We trust them to protect our children every day. I think we need to offer them the tools to carry out that sacred trust,” Lucas wrote in a memo being circulated among members of the state House this week.

Pennsylvania has more than 3,000 public school buildings spread across 500 school districts.

Lucas, who was sworn-in to his first term in office Tuesday, said the bill is personal.

In 1998, a student in Lucas’ hometown of Edinboro brought a gun to a school dance and opened fire, killing one and wounding two others. The body count could have been higher, Lucas said, if not for the intervention of an armed citizen, who used his own gun to stop the shooter.

Students and school employees would be safer if guns were allowed in schools, he said Wednesday.

“I think it’s our duty and responsibility to protect our children, and this is one way of doing it,” Lucas told PA Independent on Wednesday.

The National Rifle Association last month called for armed guards at all American schools in the aftermath of the horrific shooting in Connecticut last month. The pro-gun rights lobby suggested using retired police officers and other volunteers.

Philadelphia Mayor Michael Nutter told MSNBC last month the NRA’s proposal was a “completely dumb-ass idea.”

Clearly, Lucas comes from a different perspective. He is a proud gun owner who has worked as an instructor for the NRA. The NRA endorsed Lucas when he successfully ran for office in November.

He was formerly a teacher and is married to a public school teacher. If people are allowed to carry guns for self-defense in most other settings, he says, the same rules should apply to schools.

Shira Goodman, executive director of CeaseFirePA, which advocates gun control, said Wednesday that arming teachers gives her pause.

As a parent, she worries about accidents in the classroom, but also about how students might be able to gain access to those weapons.

I don’t think it is a one-step solution,” Goodman said. “Are you introducing a gun into a situation where it could do more harm than good?

Goodman said it would be better to have more extensive background checks for all guns and for the purchase of ammunition, and to require residents to report lost and stolen guns to law enforcement.

Lucas said teachers who chose to be armed would likely be required to keep their weapons locked inside a desk or a safe during the school day.

But Lucas isn’t the only lawmaker looking to increase security at Pennsylvania’s schools.

State Rep. Daryl Metcalfe, R-Butler, chairman of the House State Government Committee, plans to introduce legislation that would allow school districts to hire retired police officers and others with law-enforcement experience to guard schools.

Schools would be allowed to hire people who have completed training to be a municipal police officer in Pennsylvania, graduates of the Pennsylvania State Police Academy and those who had completed other, similar law-enforcement training programs.

Under current law, it is unclear what qualifications are sufficient for that purpose, Metcalfe said.

Metcalfe said he supports Lucas’ proposal, and opposes the idea of “gun-free school zones,” but believes his bill would move more quickly through the Legislature.

“Going farther than that right now, I’m not sure we could get it passed quickly, and this is something that we should move ahead with quickly,” he said.

Goodman said more armed security isn’t necessarily the best way to prevent future school massacres.  She said gunman killed 13 people and wounded 29 others in November 2009 at Fort Hood, an Army base in Texas with plenty of well-armed, well-trained soldiers.

Several other bills dealing with guns and school safety are expected to be introduced in the early days of the new legislative session.   Notably, state Rep. Ron Waters, D-Philadelphia, has announced his intention to introduce an assault weapons ban in Pennsylvania.

Shortly after the Connecticut shootings, Gov. Tom Corbett gave little indication he was interested in such a ban.  He argued that it would be ineffective when so many guns are already available.

Goodman said she hoped lawmakers, early in the new session, would approve legislation linking Pennsylvania to the national background check system for gun purchases.

Contact Boehm at Eric@PAIndependent.com and follow @PAIndependent on Twitter.

— Edited by John Trump at jtrump@watchdog.org

Related Topics: pa independent

Leigh

11:04 am on Thursday, January 24, 2013

When I see unarmed guards at our schools, it gives me no extra sense of security for our children. I would be 100% behind hiring highly trained armed guards for schools.

Arming teachers, however, is another story all together. This is such a complex issue with so many potential scenarios that do not have good outcomes. There are security procedures and apparatus that can be used first before we take such a tenuous step as this.

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wheezer96

7:50 am on Friday, January 25, 2013

I agree with you Leigh. A police presence is more of a deterent than putting guns in classrooms.

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Liz Shockley

9:50 pm on Friday, January 25, 2013

My husband and I were just discussing this. If we're going to have guns in schools, we need it to be in the hands of professionals whose job is to know how to use that weapon and be focused on security, someone who will have ongoing training.

former teacher

11:13 am on Thursday, January 24, 2013

Arming teachers is a non-starter. The teacher's unions uniformly resist any routine background checks and drug tests. Teachers, as a population, are no different than those outside of schools. Some people should not be armed. Different mechanisms can be put in place to root those out. Teachers unions would never permit that.
Hiring properly trained and armed security would be more of a deterrent to wrongdoing.

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David Burke

1:51 pm on Thursday, January 24, 2013

"Goodman...said gunman killed 13 people and wounded 29 others in November 2009 at Fort Hood, an Army base in Texas with plenty of well-armed, well-trained soldiers" Goodman conveniently failed to mention (or is completely ignorant of the facts) that none of those killed or injured were permitted to carry while on base. They obeyed the posted regulation (abided by the law) while the shooter had complete disregard for the same. When something like that happens, the best way to stop someone with a gun and evil intent is someone with a gun with good intent. More mis-information from the people that want to disarm law abiding citizens.

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Mike Shortall

2:16 pm on Thursday, January 24, 2013

Having an armed presence must accomplish something in the way of making schools seem less like "soft targets". I imagine the Philadelphia School District might concur, given the number of schools at which they request police presence during arrivals and dismissal. Of course, it's a different type of violence they are targeting, but nonetheless.

For those schools and school districts that cannot afford guards - armed or not - then certainly it seems like a reasonable solution is to have some teachers, though not actively walking around with weapons, with weapons at their disposal with all the appropriate safeguards in place.

I'm of the belief that is such a condition were common knowledge, even the deranged would know that rushing a school would not fulfill whatever their twisted agenda is

We protect so many valuables with armed guards, knowing that some criminals wouldn't hesitate to shoot their way into or out of a lucrative heist. Why not so the same for our children?

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Wilma Fingerdoo

3:43 pm on Thursday, January 24, 2013

The desire to increase school security after Newtown is understandable, but short-sighted. As tragic as it was, it is precisely because it was so shocking and emotional that we be should be especially careful of rushing through extreme security policies that we will have to live with for a very long time. Right now Central Bucks is in the process of implementing the following new security measures: Locked entrances with buzzer entry.

Before we move to turn our schools into fortresses, we should bear in mind that they are already very safe. According to the Department of Education’s figures, rates of violent crimes in school are low, with only 14 incidents per 1000 in 2010, compared to 53 per 1000 back in 1992. Incidents like the one in Newtown are so incredibly rare, it’s difficult to find an adequate comparison. But one criminologist, Gary Kleck estimates that our children are more likely to be hit by lightning than shot in school. In other words, it would be hard to make our children safer than they already are.

More importantly, this security comes at a terrible price. Schools are where we pass on our collective wisdom and values. By treating parents and other members of the community as suspects, we are effectively saying that safety matters more than everything else. Excessive security institutionalizes suspicion.

Don't implement new procedures just for the sake of “doing something.” The best “something” to do is to resist the urge to overreact.

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Diane Czerviski

8:59 am on Friday, January 25, 2013

I completely agree with your assessment. This excessive knee jerk reaction is unwarrented. Yes the Newtown incident was an awful tragedy but by all facts it is a one time occurance by one derranged individual. I read that statistically the odds of a gunman confronting a school are less then 1 in 3 million. Odds of being struck by lightening are 1 in 1 million. The larger issue we need to address is not arming just schools but how can and should the public be protected in large gathering places like malls, movie theaters, schools, sporting arenas etc. The issue is bigger then schools. If I was a small child again, I don't think I would be comfortable sitting in front of a teacher with a gun. It is intimidating and threatening. It does not promote the caring nurturing environment of a classroom. It's bad enough that I personally feel like I am treated as a criminal for even showing up at my kids school. We are creating the institutionalizes suspicion - telling kids everyone is your enemy. In addition teachers or administrators would never be able to complete the hours of training necessary to be effective in a crisis situation. Then you have the cost issue mentioned below....No this is not the road we need to be on. A better use of the funds in schools would be identifying and helping to get treatment kids with mental health disorders so they won't grow up to commit these crimes like the 20 year old in Newtown CT.

qdogPa

4:43 pm on Thursday, January 24, 2013

What is to prevent a trusted teacher with a weapon from using it in a similar way to the Newtown tragedy? Teachers still represent the population in general,so i don't think letting them have access to weapons is smart idea..PLUS, who is going to pay for the added costs? Taxpayers already are fretting the annual school tax increases...

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Liberty 1

7:12 pm on Monday, January 28, 2013

What is to prevent a trained professional armed security person from going off the reservation?

David P Long

9:48 am on Friday, January 25, 2013

What I’m saying is that if teachers who already own a gun for protection at home or in public, and already have a gun permit (CCW) to carry should be allowed to carry in school. If carried in public, the weapon should not be able to be seen at any time when carrying with a permit. So the only ones who would know who was carrying in school would be the administrators not the students or the parents of the students. I also believe that if the teachers or anyone who would carry in public should have a complete background check. This should be done for teacher when they are hired and every five years to continue to keep teaching our children.

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Bill Sams

9:56 am on Friday, January 25, 2013

I believe that it would be a good idea for some of the school staff to be trained and certified to carry a Gun in schools. Not all teachers need to have a gun. I believe we as taxpayers really don't see where our school taxes are going so why not have a record of where this money is spent. I think that you would be surprised at how much of a surplus the schools have to spend on this type of program to protect our children.
Something has to be done to protect our future generation. Our Children are very Much Needed protection from the Crazy people in the world.

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Mike L.

11:23 pm on Friday, January 25, 2013

"we as taxpayers really don't see where our school taxes are going"?? Really? Speak for yourself. I see where the dollars are going - to educate children. Why do you need documentation to prove that? Not sure what district you live in but I am fully satisfied with mine (Council Rock) Bill, I'd gladly dedicate some of my tax dollars to reeducate you.

Gadaf Gadaf

10:06 am on Friday, January 25, 2013

Mike Shortall and David Long are right. Those teachers who are comfortable and licensed to carry should be allowed (and they should be allowed to carry any means of self protection with which they are comfortable). The fact that there might be armed resistance at any school will deter the murderers. No one but administrators will know which teacher, if any, has a means of protection whether it be a firearm, taser, mace whatever. We don't need gunslingers who are quick on the draw in front of the kids. We need people in the school to be able to access a locked up, hidden weapon when the lockdown occurs so they can protect the kids with whom they are huddled in the closet of their classroom. We should rescind this policy when all crazy people have been proven to be prevented from accessing firearms of any kind, legal or illegal which is never.

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Nick

11:12 am on Friday, January 25, 2013

Arming teachers is one of the worst ideas I have ever heard. Mike Shortall (as usual) just throws up Republican talking points. If he ever has an original idea someone let me know.

Schools are places where kids go to learn, not armed castles. We only need to think about arming teachers because we have foolishly made access to firearms WAY TO EASY. Gun rights and gun proliferation are not the same thing.

To sensible people, Newtown, CT was tipping point. Our great gun experiment has failed - it isn't worth having kids slaughtered in mass numbers at a goddam elementary school.

Gun advocates only care about themselves. Join a well formed militia like the 2nd Amendment says, then we can talk. Until then, lets be sensible and restrict gun access.

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David Burke

2:52 pm on Friday, January 25, 2013

The 2nd Amendment is about forming a militia IF the government is oppresive to the point that the only remedy is in the threat of force or actual force to overthrow them. I'm not for full auto and we definitley need much harsher penalties for illegal possession, but if you wait until you need to organize a well formed militia to hand out the tools, it's too late.

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Mike Shortall

10:36 am on Saturday, January 26, 2013

Wow ... Talk about partisan talking points. Not too much MSNBC in there, eh, Nick?

Facts are these ... There is not a SINGLE law that you can pass on gun control that would solve this problem or eliminate the threat. You can MAYBE reduce the size and speed of any potential future event. But you cannot stop them UNLESS you're willing to make a school look like a military installation or a high security prison, and swallow the costs of doing so.

Restricting gun access won't do it. Reducing the size of clips or the availability of ammunition won't do it. (Wonder where I heard those solutions ... ) None of those "solutions" completely solve the problem.

It's so easy to pooh-pooh ideas without coming up with your own solution that would work. So enlighten us on YOUR solutions to completely resolve this situation (without - of course - relying on excerpts from the Rachel Maddow show).

Shalina

11:41 am on Friday, January 25, 2013

I for one, am completely behind the idea of using armed gaurds and school police to protect our kids. There is nothing in this world that is more valuable and worth protecting than our children. They deserve the highest level of safety and security. They deseve to feel most safe in the place they are more often then they are home. As parents, we deserve the peace of mind, knowing that when our kids walk out that door, they will return in the same physical and mental condition that they left in. I need to know, that while I'm at work, I don't have to suffer the anxiety of worry and concern that my children may not be safe at school. I do however sit on the fence in regard to teachers carrying guns. It is to easy for a gun to be taken off of someone's body. Having a few administrators who are trained in weapons safety, have a complete mental health exam, and have no criminal history, could have LOCKED access to additional firearms in the event of an emergency. But I don't think admin, or teacher, should be able to "carry" on their body while school is in session. With armed gards on site, there would be no reason to have teachers armed. We need to have more planned out escape routes specific to acts of terror. The simple "fire drill" type of response is unexceptable.

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Shalina

11:42 am on Friday, January 25, 2013

Locking, bullet proof doors and glass windows, Additional front and rear personnel to cover the exits, a load speaker type alarm system to imediatly notify students and faculty of danger on the campus imediately(Like the Bristol/Levittown fire alarms), and arming ALL teachers with police style tazors, are other improvements that the schools could make to add to security without arming the teachers themselves.

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Shalina

11:42 am on Friday, January 25, 2013

Honestly, with more and more stories of teachers sexually abusing students, I'm not really comfortable hading them a weapon to make it easier to keep their abuses secret. There are a lot of options available for making our schools more secure. But in the end, it all comes down to budgets. And there are not many Philadelphia or Bucks schools with the funds currently available to impose more safety regulations and armed personel.

I say, offer all the unemployed vets who are searching relentlessly for work that isn't available, who would be happy to keep our children safe, who would feel a great sense of purpose, a job doing just that. Let the people who were trained to protect us in combat, protect our kids from the terrors that they face at home.

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Lavender Green

12:26 pm on Friday, January 25, 2013

I agree arming teachers is a very bad idea. There should be a better secure system for entering the school. A double door system where one must show picture id, which can be swiped through a system to give information, then one should wait there till the child is brought to them or if they are there to see a teacher they must wait till the teacher comes to them and goes to a secure area. Guards should be appointed to the schools, Sad it has come to this but an alternative would be online schooling.
I don't believe arming all teachers because some of these teachers aren't competent enough to use the guns

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Mike Shortall

10:40 am on Saturday, January 26, 2013

Not arming ALL teachers ... just some who are comfortable with guns; trained to handle them; subject to mental health evaluations; and responsible.

Nick

12:28 pm on Friday, January 25, 2013

I appreciate your comments Lavender. But if I had a choose a society without guns, or one with guns that required us to keep our kids home and have the school online, the solutions is a no brainer.

Our great gun experiment has failed, and the cost was terrible.

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Mike Shortall

10:52 am on Saturday, January 26, 2013

You can never put that Genie back in the Bottle ... at least not without leaving only criminals with guns. (Oops ... I'm pretty sure I heard that somewhere on a conservative or Republican website, radio/TV show, cable network, book club, casual conversation ... Sorry.)

Unfortunately, if you want your gun-free utopia, you will have to move somewhere else. You can thank the Founding Fathers, who despite all the hand-wringing over the 2nd Amendment language on "well-trained militias" never bothered to canvas the country for the return of all guns once they kicked the Colonialists off the Continent, not even when some of those same FFs were serving a Presidents (Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, etc.)

So sorry ...

qdogPa

12:29 pm on Friday, January 25, 2013

And what will be the result when a gun belonging to a teacher,somehow harms a stduent, and this WILL happen..i would bet more students would be injured by teachers having guns, then the # of incidents it prevents..

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Justin Napierala

2:10 pm on Friday, January 25, 2013

I think that having armed guards in schools is a great idea. As far as teacher's are concerned I'm undecided. I think giving teacher's macs or a taser wouldn't be such a bad idea. @Nick what is this government experiment you speak of?

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Mike L.

11:29 pm on Friday, January 25, 2013

I think you need a new English teacher. It's teachers, not teacher's dude.

Lavender Green

3:30 pm on Friday, January 25, 2013

Nick I am not against guns not at all what I am about is the system and how easy it is for any idiot to get one, there are so many people out there who are not competent enough to be armed, there is no real answers because if a person wants to do harm they will, what needs to be done is prevention, we need to protect the innocent, we need to have our families feel safe about sending the kids to school, we need to have people who can protect them while they are there, people who are trained, people who can take out the bad guys (or girls) even when un armed. The problem lies in how easy it is to get into these places, hence the option to make it more secure. The problem with arming some teachers is then you have a trigger happy individual (no not all) who will abuse the power.
I don't believe our schools are safe, I don't believe we have adequate people in there making the correct decisions, I don't believe that the problem with this will be fixed in a short period of time. I do believe there are individuals who can "fix" this but they are not being listened to by the powers that be

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