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What's the Fate of Pa.’s Voter ID Law?

Pennsylvania's new voter ID law has been challenged in court. What do you think? Should you be required to show identification to vote?

 

 

In March, Pennsylvania legislators passed a strict voter ID law, requiring all voters to show “acceptable" identification before voting. Voting rights groups challenged the law in court, arguing it’s unconstitutional.

The case concluded Thursday, and the judge will give his decision the week of Aug. 13.

What is your decision? Should you be required to show ID to vote? Why? Why not? Tell us in comments.

To get up-to-date on the controversy, Here’s a guide to everything you ever wanted to know about Pennsylvania’s Voter ID law.

Related Topics: Pa. Voter ID, Pa. Voter ID Law, participate 2012, and voter ID

Linda

6:39 am on Saturday, August 4, 2012

While many countries do require photo ID to vote, and there's nothing wrong with the basic idea if that's what we, as a country, decide to do, the rush is the problem. If we decide to impose this law, then give the citizens several years, perhaps more than one election cycle to get the proper ID for free. And spend a few $ to advertise it and explain properly what proof is needed and provide help to get it.

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ToolFoole

7:03 am on Saturday, August 4, 2012

Why is this such a burden? You most definitely should be required to show ID to vote. It's easy to get a photo ID at any DOT driver's license center (i.e. Dublin). I know people who have done it. If you are elderly or disabled and you can't get to the DOT center, you can easily get a absentee ballot sent to you by providing your name and the last four digits of your social security number. I've confirmed this with a simple phone call to the board of elections.

You will never convince me that there is no voter fraud going on. Go to:
http://www.judicialwatch.org/
http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2012/02/millions-of-voter-records-flawed-nearly-2-mil-dead-registered/
http://www.judicialwatch.org/about/
"Judicial Watch, Inc., a conservative, non-partisan educational foundation, promotes transparency, accountability and integrity in government, politics and the law."
Their 2011 list of the 10 most corrupt politicians includes 4 Republicans and 6 Democrats.

No one ever said that freedom is free. You've got to work at it. It's not a lot to ask and keeping the integrity of the vote is vital. Even one vote can affect the outcome of an election.

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Kate

11:06 am on Saturday, August 4, 2012

An antidote for judicial watch: http://www.rightwingwatch.org/category/organizations/judicial-watch

So, toolfool, how do you explain the GOP Rep stating, on camera, his pride in the passage of this law as "making sure Romney carries PA."

Doesn't get much more explicit than that.

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Chris

6:45 pm on Saturday, August 4, 2012

Great comments on all your posts and rebuttals.

Chris

7:03 am on Saturday, August 4, 2012

This bill was also passed years ago when Ed Rendell was Governor and vetoed by him. There is no rush to get only real voters to the polls but we should be concerned that only real voters get to vote.

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a m mulroney

9:02 pm on Sunday, August 5, 2012

Remember the old Philly maxim-----"vote early, vote often"

Linda

7:40 am on Saturday, August 4, 2012

While may be easy for many of us to produce photo ID, there are groups of people, mostly elderly and poor, who, while they may have the right to vote, have no photo ID. If they were born in another state, or country, it may be difficult and/or expensive to get proof of birth needed to get photo ID. That's why we need a period of time for the law to be effective.

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ToolFoole

10:18 am on Saturday, August 4, 2012

If they have a social security number, they can get a photo ID free of charge. There are many ways to do it, even if you can't get to a driver's license center. As I said in my earlier post, the elderly or disabled can still vote via absentee w/o a photo ID, even if they've never had a driver's license, by providing the last 4 digits of their SS#. Go to the VOTESPA link below and click on "Photo ID issued by a PA care facility" (bottom of p.4 and top of p.5), if you don't believe me. There is also "provisional voting" available if you forget to bring your photo ID to the polling place or if you don't have an approved ID. You have up to 6 days after the election to provide the necessary documentation.

For more info, call 1-877-VOTESPA (1-877-868-3772) or go to:
http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt?open=514&objID=1174114&parentname=ObjMgr&parentid=4&mode=2

There is plenty of time to get this done. No one will be disenfranchised.

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a m mulroney

9:05 pm on Sunday, August 5, 2012

photo ID is necessary for more than voting. If this makes people go get it they they're ahead. I've helped people who have needed several kinds of aid----shared ride for one---have to prove age and that it's actually you. They there's new doctors--referred to a new Dr---alway have to prove who you are---MEICARE fraud---you know. If there's medicare fraud why wouldn't there be voting fraud

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William Crielly

11:35 pm on Monday, August 6, 2012

And how about all the dead people who vote every year in Phila. How are they going to get a photo ID?

Jeff Fread

8:05 am on Saturday, August 4, 2012

I wish the politicians were more concerned with getting everyone out to vote instead of disenfranchising a potentially large group of voters solely for political gain.

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ToolFoole

10:38 am on Saturday, August 4, 2012

First of all, as evidenced by the daily piles of political junk mail and the incessant phone calls, I think the politicians are pretty darned "concerned" about "getting everyone out to vote". Second of all, no one is being disenfranchised. This is merely left-wing propaganda. Why is it always only that "potentially large group of voters" who have this problem with ID? Are there no elderly, disabled or poor Conservatives? Oh, that's right, I forgot, we Conservatives are all rich one percenters. How does being poor prevent you from getting a photo ID? It's free! I've already addressed the (non-) issue of the elderly and disabled in previous posts. If you're a legal voter there is no excuse for not being able to vote. Period!

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a m mulroney

9:07 pm on Sunday, August 5, 2012

Not disenfranchised----just having to do a little work--expend a bit of energy.

Kate

8:39 am on Saturday, August 4, 2012

If the spirit of this law was genuine, it would not be a rush job. I have no problem with photo voter ID, but the intent of this law is voter suppression in the upcoming 2012 election.

If the intent were genuine: 1) the law would be effective in the 2016 election. 2) An effective and massive media education would take place (not run by a GOP partisan); 3) rotating places where photos and IDs can be issued would be identified such as libraries, schools and colleges, DMV, courthouses. You can have your passport photo taken at drugstores!; 4) proof of citizenship would include means of proof in addition to birth certificates, which many do not have, especially the elderly.

How embarrassing that the State had to stipulate that it could not present ONE case of voter fraud. That should tell you everything. For the person who quotes the right wing "Judicial Watch" here's a site for you: http://www.rightwingwatch.org/category/organizations/judicial-watch

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ToolFoole

12:42 pm on Saturday, August 4, 2012

Considering the fact that a large portion of the electorate deem this as probably the most important election in the history of our nation, then there is good reason for it to be a "rush job". Rush, really? This is nothing new. Voter ID laws started in 2003. It's been discussed heavily since the last election. Even with 3+ months to go, every legitimate voter in PA has time to take care of this.

The intent is genuine: 1) The upcoming could be a major turning point in the history of our country. There could be a big CHANGE in our form of government. Some HOPE for that. My hope is that more than half of the electorate vote in favor of our Constitution and our current form of government and won't vote for the incumbent administration. 2) Where would the money come from for this "massive media education"? More taxes? I'm sure that would go over well, esp. with people on your side. 3) There are lots of places to get your ID photos taken. Download the lists on votesPA.com. 4) Do they have social security numbers?

Embarrassing? Irrelevant, you know as well as I do that it happens. How many were disenfranchised by the New Black Panthers in Philly? I guess we'll never know.

I'm so sure that rightwingwatch.org is as unbiased as all the websites that are listed in the link in the article: "guide to everything you ever wanted to know about Pennsylvania’s Voter ID law". Leftwing drivel!

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a m mulroney

9:09 pm on Sunday, August 5, 2012

what's the rush job----it's been months with time still to go
No wonder the US is falling behind the rest of the word.
In Europe everyone carries an ID--can't even check into a hotel without

Gary M. Portnoy

8:49 am on Saturday, August 4, 2012

Requiring photo Id is similar to treating an illness that doesn't exist. There is no proof that large numbers of unregistered voters or "dead" voters come out to vote. The purpose of the law is to disenfranchise certain groups of people in order to influence an election. The web site referenced above, Judicial Watch, is extremely biased. It only "appears" unbiased if you see things thier way.

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ToolFoole

12:52 pm on Saturday, August 4, 2012

Is that why they listed 4 Republicans in their 2011 list of the 10 most corrupt politicians? Or, is your definition of "biased", conservative? They admit, as I indicated in my first post, that they are conservative. They are however, non-partisan. Maybe try reading it for yourself, rather than believing what your biased websites say they are.

Bill Ritter

9:40 am on Saturday, August 4, 2012

This entire thing was concocted by ALEC, an out of state group of extreme right-wing billionaires and corporate CEO's in order to steal the next election. Period. Both sides in the court case stipulated in writing that there were no--0--cases of in person voter fraud on record and none likely in November. To take away the most precious right of a citizen from hundreds of thousands of voters is the most shameful thing I have seen coming out of this Republican dominated state legislature and that is saying something.

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ToolFoole

1:10 pm on Saturday, August 4, 2012

I just love a great conspiracy theory. If it's conservative it must be evil.

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a m mulroney

9:11 pm on Sunday, August 5, 2012

Where in the name of all that is holy I anyone TAKING AWAY a right to vote. Get up off you butt and do what is necessary

Elizabeth Coleman

10:36 am on Saturday, August 4, 2012

I agree with Linda. If this has been on the books since Ed Rendell was Govenor I certainly have never heard of it and it has most certainly not been enforced. I vote i every single election, even the tiniest, and I have never been asked for my ID. It seems odd to suddenly pull it out of the hat just before this most important election. I can only assume that there are many who have a vested interest in denying the poorest and most disenfranchised their equal right to vote. I also believe there needs to be more lead time and energy invested in getting the information to these individuals who do not possess a photo ID.

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Chris

6:41 pm on Saturday, August 4, 2012

This bill was also passed years ago when Ed Rendell was Governor and vetoed by him.

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a m mulroney

9:12 pm on Sunday, August 5, 2012

Good golly---do you think that it would occur to Ed Rendell that doing that would increase Liberal chances to get him re-elected Hmmm ??????

Elizabeth Coleman

10:43 am on Saturday, August 4, 2012

Wow ToolFoole, you appear to be very angry.

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ToolFoole

1:45 pm on Saturday, August 4, 2012

Not angry, Elizabeth, just tired of the same old BS.

Don George

11:08 am on Saturday, August 4, 2012

WHen I go to a new bank and open an account I must show 2 or 3 forms of ID to establish myself as a customer. When I purchase a new firearm, a right established under the 2nd ammendment and various case law, I must show 2 forms of ID (in PA).

If showing ID for voting is of such an issue, then let the opponents be consistent and demand that opening a n account at a new bank and purchasing a firearm should NOT required ID. NUFF SAID! Be consistent people.

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Kate

11:30 am on Saturday, August 4, 2012

You are missing the point, Don. Please read my previous comment. For this law to take effect in a manner that ensures all have a chance to comply with it, it would not take effect in this upcoming election... Just read my further points regarding the implementation of this law.

Perhaps you do not understand how 1) realizing that the state could not identify ONE case of voter fraud and 2) hearing the remarks of a state gop rep recorded on camers stating that this law will ensure Romney taking PA; and 3) the job given to "educate the public" of this law was given to a gop partisan fundraiser...

Well, Don, if the shoe were on the other foot I'd think you'd be screaming. Nuff said.

Linda

11:28 am on Saturday, August 4, 2012

Don: I agree, consistency is best where it makes sense. However, I understand there are people who do not have a bank account and have no need of a firearm, but would still like to vote in this election as they have done for perhaps many elections in the past. I just believe we should try to include everyone and not put up NEW obstacles in such a hurry.

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a m mulroney

9:14 pm on Sunday, August 5, 2012

Give us a timeline--how much is not a hurry ?????

Elizabeth Coleman

12:46 pm on Saturday, August 4, 2012

I agree Kate and Linda. Well said!

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Liberty 1

1:29 pm on Saturday, August 4, 2012

As the saying goes, "the best democrats are the dead ones, they are the votes that carry an election". A picture id solves only half the problem. We made the voters in Iraq have a purple thumb when the voted. I am in favor of that also as that measure would cause a drastic decline in voter fraud.

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Kate

6:12 pm on Saturday, August 4, 2012

So, if someone disagrees, to whatever degree, with your party's (I'm assuming you lean GOP) you would be happy if all those people (democrats) would die. "The best democrats are dead ones." Wow.

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KevinP

8:50 pm on Saturday, August 4, 2012

I just saw something fly past Kate's head. I think it was the point.

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Liberty 1

9:06 pm on Saturday, August 4, 2012

Kate - WOW back at ya! You guys on the left really make me laugh. So dramatic! Yea, I wish all dems to die. I am not a goper as you like to put it - far from it - but lefties are the real plague, and I am all for a mass vaccination. But you guys are funny. Get a sense of humor and get over yourselves.

MJG

2:12 pm on Saturday, August 4, 2012

It seems that the conservatives have the momentum and are in the driver’s seat. But they will do what they always do…….hit the wall at full speed

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ToolFoole

2:41 pm on Saturday, August 4, 2012

That is often true, but this time the "driver's seat" may be that of a freight train. "The wall" won't stop a train.

Cheryl Ebinger Harper

2:13 pm on Saturday, August 4, 2012

Every one should have to put there finger in the ink well like foreign countries then we know you all ready voted, and you can't do it again. Nothing wrong with ID.

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Elizabeth Coleman

5:51 pm on Saturday, August 4, 2012

If you are talking about a fingerprint, I think that is more fair than this new law. I wouldn't object to doing that. It's fair at least.

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a m mulroney

9:17 pm on Sunday, August 5, 2012

This kind of ID is very good to prove you have already voted----But how do you prove you're no voting for your decease father whose name you have. (or mother)

George Keiper

2:18 pm on Saturday, August 4, 2012

You have a right to vote,this however is not yet a police state where you have to present papers when ordered by the authorities...yet,but republicans like Corbett are working on it.How can anyone possibly connect your right not to have citizen documents with your right to vote.You already identify yourself when you register...if they want to make the voter registration card a photo Id,I have no problem with that.But it should be mailed in with absentee ballots (where voter fraud actually occurs) and then returned after the election.Forcing people to get various state approved Id's places an undue and restrictive burden on citizens to practice their franchise.

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ToolFoole

3:49 pm on Saturday, August 4, 2012

I think you exaggerate a bit, George. Even with the photo ID, I don't think we're quite at the "police state" stage yet. We're not being stopped on the street for no reason. Why do I need photo ID to exercise my 2nd amendment right to buy, own or carry a firearm? And I have to pay for it, too. Imagine, having to pay to exercise a right guaranteed in the Bill of Rights!

I don't think I'd have a problem with a photo ID voter reg. card, as well as, having to send it in with an absentee ballot.

Honestly, I think the number of people who would truly have an undue and restrictive burden placed upon them in order to vote is actually very small. As I stated earlier, there are many ways to do it. Go to www.votespa.com.

All of this would be unnecessary if people, both politicians and voters, were honorable, but we live in the real world and this is just another manifestation of our declining culture.

Cheri

2:30 pm on Saturday, August 4, 2012

I always thought it was very strange that I didn't have to show ID. Anybody could show up and vote for me! Sounds like an idea long overdue.

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Frank Underwood

2:50 pm on Saturday, August 4, 2012

We are violating the rights of dead people to vote.

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Frank Underwood

3:26 pm on Saturday, August 4, 2012

Dead people need to be able to vote for whatever democrat they want.

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Kate

6:14 pm on Saturday, August 4, 2012

Goppers don't need dead people. They have Diebold, the Koch bros., and the Supreme Court.

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a m mulroney

9:18 pm on Sunday, August 5, 2012

I understand in Phily this is considered a constitutional right

Mike Shortall

3:30 pm on Saturday, August 4, 2012

Of course this is not a "unreasonable burden" to voting, as the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in upholding Indiana's photo ID law in 2008 by a 6-3 margin. (That's a bigger margin, by the way, by the same Court that upheld Obamacare!)

And voter ID laws have been in existence since 1990, so enough with the "rush to pass the bill". It was no more a rush than was the ACA.

The fact is Democrats want no restrictions because they don't care WHO votes, so long as they vote Democratic! Their real problem, which is WHY they whine so much about the photo ID law (Today The Philly Inquirer has not 1 but 2 articles about the "unbearable" requirements of the photo ID law!), is that as of July only about 2800 people in the entire state had sought the proper ID! Their constituency simply doesn't show the commitment needed to meet a very reasonable requirement for voter responsibility.

You can be sure if there was a photo ID requirement for receiving new ACA benefits or its expanded Medicare coverage, the lines at PENNDOT offices would be very long and suddenly so very easy to get to.

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Kate

6:21 pm on Saturday, August 4, 2012

I am a democrat. I have NO problem with a photo ID. I believe 1) the law should take effect in 2016 (or 2014 at the earliest); 2) the access (DMV) doesn't work for a lot of folks - rotate picture ID facilities in libraries, schools, courthouses, DMV, post office, etc.; 3 develop an effective education process for compliance - not hire a GOP fundraiser to do the job.

If those things were done I might not believe that this is being done simply to throw the election to Romney. After all, it was one of your own elected state officials that was filmed saying to a group of cheering republicans - "now that we've passed voter ID, Romney will take PA."

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Chris

6:44 pm on Saturday, August 4, 2012

This bill was also passed years ago when Ed Rendell was Governor and vetoed by him. To Kate "Romney will take PA" comment was made because of the cheating going on in Phila. and Pittsburgh.

Hank

3:44 pm on Saturday, August 4, 2012

if people cannot get to a penndot center to get their FREE Id how do they get to the polls?Seems like they are perfect candidates to vote absentee!This issue is a red herring fostered by the democrats!

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Terry

5:19 pm on Saturday, August 4, 2012

Of course! This would eliminate voters being paid to vote more than once, under someone else's identity. Wow, what a concept, something legal and legitimate!

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Kate

6:23 pm on Saturday, August 4, 2012

Would it eliminate all those gop orgs who notify voters their polling place has changed when it hasn't.

P2YA

5:45 pm on Saturday, August 4, 2012

For anyone that works at the polls, assuming this law stands, the upcoming election will be tough duty. ID confusion and angst, coupled with higher volume seen for a Presidential Election, will produce the longest lines ever. It will likely mean keeping the polls open in some cases 2 hours beyond 8 PM making what is already a 15 hour day (including count & certification) longer still. It will reduce per hour payment below $6/hour. Minimal compensation for tolerating ID or wait-time anger. I am dreading it. I would like to see a longer implementation period on the law to smooth out the confusion and remove the political stigma.

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OldNavy66

6:00 pm on Saturday, August 4, 2012

Unfortunately, this is now an absolute requirement to fair elections. Anyone who believes that voter fraud is not rampant is either totally naive or it simply doesn't fit with their politics. Ever notice how many dead people are still registered, and vote, in the Philadelphia Wards? As far as a photo ID being an unfair imposition, they are being offered free of charge.... those without would obtain one if voting was actually valued.

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Elizabeth Coleman

6:21 pm on Saturday, August 4, 2012

I'm really on board with the fingerprint idea. That way, everyone who wants to vote would be able, and no ID (like ID's can't be falsified) issue. Problem solved. I'd give my fingerprint in order to vote.

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Kate

6:50 pm on Saturday, August 4, 2012

For all those posting about the supposed cheating in Phila and Pitts, why, oh why, did the state stipulate that they could not find ONE example of in person voter fraud. Not one.

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Mike Shortall

9:24 pm on Saturday, August 4, 2012

Because voter fraud - when it occurs has to be reported, and be prosecutable. If the voting fraud is indeed occurring in Philly and Pittsburgh, who's there to find it then report it? Certainly the Democrats aren't going to throw the flag on themselves, if they're doing it.

That's whay there's no record of voting fraud in Pennsylvania.

Elizabeth Coleman

9:27 pm on Saturday, August 4, 2012

Why weren't the Republicans able to find it if it exists?

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Mike Shortall

12:13 am on Sunday, August 5, 2012

Because the politicians in control of places like Philadelphia aren't going to report voter fraud they wholeheartedly endorse.

tom

7:30 am on Sunday, August 5, 2012

I think it is great how many of the folks who state that having an ID does not create a hardship for the poor, the elderly and those with mental illness are donating their time and money to assist folks with paying for the supportive documentation needed to get the "free ID" as well as to take them to any locations they need to go to fill out the forms for the documentation. And the outpouring of offers to then take folks to the polls on election day, it is just so heartwarming to see that these folks are not trying to suppress the poor, the elderly and those with mental illness--they are truly dedicated to making certain everyone gets to vote! Rumor has it that ALEC is spending $30 million to hire ID coaches to assist those who need support, money and transportation to secure an ID! What a wonderful way to create jobs and make certain that the country continues to value everyone's vote...what is that sound? What? The damn alarm! Don't tell me it's time to wake up already! Well it was a nice dream while it lasted...

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ToolFoole

2:20 pm on Sunday, August 5, 2012

Wwaaaa, cry me a river! Save the drama for your Mama. How much of a hardship is it to call or write or email or use the votesPA website to get an absentee ballot? There is NO NEED to "go" anywhere! All they need to do is provide their name and the last 4 digits of their SS#. In the time it took you to write your post, you could have gone to the website to see for yourself all the myriad of ways for anyone in any situation to vote. But that doesn't make for good drama.
Here it is again, in case you're so inclined:
Home page:
http://www.votespa.com/portal/server.pt/community/home/13514
Photo ID page:
http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt?open=514&objID=1174114&parentname=ObjMgr&parentid=4&mode=2

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Patrick C

2:04 pm on Monday, August 6, 2012

I agree ToolFoole, but I don't think we go far enough, we should follow the Athenian model, make voting mandatory. That way everyone will finally be responsible for our Democracy. Of course if this happened Republicans would never get a president elected but voter fraud would be at zero.

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tom

10:18 pm on Monday, August 6, 2012

Your empathy is overwhelming, I must say. Thank you for the links; some of the folks I know may be able to use these. Nevertheless, in reading the various pages, it appears that, although one need only supply the last four digits of one's soc sec # to obtain an absentee application, once one receives the application, one must get a physician's signature. Most PCP offices charge patients for extra paperwork, and even if they don't, it may be a hardship to get to the doctor's office. Btw, if you don't enjoy drama, maybe comedy is more your cup of tea--in which case you might want to check out Mr. Romney's campaign. Just kidding!

Steve Sears

5:21 pm on Monday, August 13, 2012

I've researching the PA Commonwealth Court Judge - Robert E. Simpson Jr. - whose will determine whether the PA Voter ID is LEGAL. From what I can find my evaluation is that he will find the PA Voter ID an infringement on the legal right to vote as written in the PA Constitution.
Here a link to more information about Judge Simpson Jr. http://www.philly.com/philly/news/politics/20120813_Voter-ID_case_puts_spotlight_on_Pa__judge.ht

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