So HOPE AND CHANGE have worked well for you??

Because you like Obama bowing down, literally, to the Muslim Brotherhood and playing footsie with Putin and allowing our Ambassador to be killed an lying about it?

On March 20, 2006 Senator Obama, speaking before the senate, predicted his own failure in leadership:

"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren.

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."

http://tinyurl.com/997tm4l

Randy I agree. This man is so disconnected from the rest of this country. He panders to those who fear a equal America. Let me clarify what I mean by equal America. It is what are nation is founded on. The ideal that we are all created equal, and in that, the laws and taxation policies should reflect this objective. That they should be built on the better good for the nations people as whole. In my opinion they did not mean to give the wealthy citizens places to hide there money. That they be taxed less than those who make less, who's jobs are no less important than a wealthy mans. They have proven that these privileges that there corrupt representatives gave them only proved to make our countries workforce weaker. When they send our jobs to other countries that have slave labor and unregulated safety issues. When they hide the money in foregin accounts and don't pay full amount of taxes. This means they aren't helping to build the work force of the future by giving to the schools and rebuilding the infrastructure of are nation.This in itself proves that this mans ideals are far different than what this country was based on. When this country includes all it's citizens we accomplish what no other country has been able to do. A free and equal nation!

Randy, do you own a checkbook, have you been unemployed for over 6 months and do you know what real leadership is? Let me go n the record by saying I don't necessarily agree with everything Romney stands for, however on important issues he is by far more experienced a leader than what we have now. Obama never in his life owned anything. He never actually held a job, as he has been living off of taxpayers his entire life, "serving the folks". He devises budgets that ZERO Senators accepted.....ZERO, no Dem or Repub, ZERO. That should tell you about his business savvy, and his ability to balance a checkbook. 50 MILLION Americans are on food stamps. Depending upon how you count, at the very minimum 24 MILLION are unemployed.....so I have to ask you, what do you LIKE about Obama. How has he helped your situation?

Amen to that!! Obama brought us out of potential "Depression," despite Republicans blocking many programs that wo9uld have brought us even further, and people complaining we haven't reached perfection yet??? Patience, people. "Rome wasn't built in a day!"

So many questions...
MO: Mostly. I have some issues with Congress.
Maria: None of that made sense.
Star Thrower: He was talking about the Congress that was using the debt ceiling as leverage to get what they want. They showed poor character.
Tonya Strickland: Well said.
John: I do have a checkbook. I was unemployed for over 6 months (layed off Jan 2009, wife was full-time student in school at the time. I paid for our needs and her schooling with savings, student loans, and unemployment until I found new job Nov 2009). Yes, I know what real leadership is. Next, you make a lot of points about how bad Obama is, and regardless of veracity, they have nothing to do with my comment. I said I am against everything Mitt Romney said. I did not say I agree with everything Obama said. The above comment wasn't about Obama. What does it say about Mitt if the first instinct of his supporters ISN'T to defend Mitt, but attack Obama instead. It says you don't like him either, you just dislike Obama more. That is not high praise.
Carl W: You point out the Congress issue I agree with, so thanks. :)

Class warfare and fallacies are your argument to not vote for Romney. Great argument did you come up with that yourself or take the Rev. Al's talking points? Please defend Obama's record as to why he should be re-elected. Remember he believes Government trickle down works not capitalism. If that is true our record borrowing and spending would have made things 16 trillion x better instead of worsening.

By all means, let's not hire someone for the job that's competent!

Mike,

Supply side economics aka Trickle Down Economics aka Voodoo Economics aka Reaganomics have been shown to be at best ineffective and at worst downright malicious time and time again since Reagan implemented them. The problem is that if assumes that when you give the rich more money they are going to spend it on raising the wages of the lower/middle class, or they are going to use it to pay for things they wouldn't have otherwise bought.

However this has shown to be time and time again false. When you give the wealthy more money they tend to hoard it.

The alternative option is to give more money to the lower/middle classes. When you give money to them they tend to spend it. They have things they need and want that they haven't been able to afford. Food stamps have been bar none the best bang for the buck spent ever in this country for strengthening our economy. You see when you give the lower and middle class more money (either directly, or by providing them with services such as food stamp which frees up their own money) they go out and spend that additional money. They buy clothes, and toys, and cars and whatever else it is they've needed or wanted and have been unable to purchase so far. Now that raises the demand of those products, those companies need to hire more people to cope with the new demand, those new people now have money, and can go out and buy things they've wanted. This cycle continues on and on improving the economy.

So then, we can all go to hell in a handbasket, then. Great logic. Obama can't even shine Bush's shoes. He's a worthless socialist liar.

Michael, the Muslim world is rallying against us, Iran wants to go nuclear, our economy following this clown is just short of Greece, gas is at $4/gallon and we owe $16 trillion dollars. And your concern is women's wages and fashion sense (or "sence" as you choose to spell it). It is this argument that has separated this country. The serious long-lasting points and the deflection points. Do you think our military gives a damn right now about women's wages or fashion...sorry, I and people like me are more concerned with the safety and security of this country. Without that, you won't have the right to complain about your fashion sence, because that is part of the America that is threatened....

Omgosh! You are buying the lies of the Democrats. Romney is for abortion in the case of rape and for the life of the mother in medical cases. The White House pays women less than men. Check it out for yourself. Romney hired an incredible amount of women in important positions when he was Governor of MA. Women have Roe vs. Wade and can chose and that is not going anywhere.

People need jobs and Romney can do that for our nation. Obama has raided $716 billion from medicare that has not gone into effect yet and have you looked at the cost of living lately, food, gas, and everything else you buy. Wake up.

I can't believe that you are so uninformed on so many levels. BTW just a suggestion, you may want to spell check your post next time. Mitt also has a plan to help education too.

Michael,

Your first statement is just not true - I will not call you a liar, but it is just not true. Your second statement is arguable. Most republicans would suggest they are for equal pay for equal work - no matter the race or gender or religion. The gap between men and women's pay is heading in the right direction. Life is not always fair so I am sure there are examples of women being underpaid.

Did you know that people that wear glasses, on average, make about 4% more than those who do not? Should we pass a law to make sure that gets fixed too?

No need to engage you on your comments regarding his wife - again, typical liberal...

Mary Ann Bullamore,

On the topic of Roe v Wade it is important to know where a president stands on that issue, and numerous other issues. There is a chance he will be able to appoint a member to the supreme court which can have long lasting affects to this country. For one if enough people are appointed who disagree with Roe v Wade it could easily be overturned.

That money that Obama "raided" is a plan supported by Obama, Romney and Ryan. All of them have included that in their plans [1]. Additionally that money has not been "raided", "pilfered" or otherwise taken from Medicare. What that number comes from is a number of changes to bring down the cost of healthcare in the future [2]/

[1] http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/08/fact-check-obama-ryan-romney-backed-medicare-cuts/
[2] http://www.factcheck.org/2012/08/medicares-piggy-bank/

Are you on drugs?

Wally, the man has run businesses AND governed a State. If it is experience you are seeking, please enlighten me as to the vast experience Mr. Obama has/had, sans his on the job training leading the most powerful country in the world. I am certain that teaching law at the Chicago Institute for Fashion Design, or representing ACORN in a legal battle will be on your long list of this All-knowing man. If you can, will you enlighten those of us STILL waiting to see when our president is going to officially call the murder of 4 United States citizens an act of terror, versus some unruly folks who got carried away? Do you have any idea what the traits of leadership mean? I am guessing you neve served this country or owned your own business, where people on a daily basis needed you to be on point every day. THAT'S what we need in a President. Campaigning and going on tv to talk with the ladies when we have serious issues is failing, not leading. Try taking an adult viewpoint of this president, and stop thinking how cool he is. If you don think he will and has supported the elite, then why is he continuing to hang with them? Fooled once, shame on him, fooled twice shame on you....

O now let me introduce the profound Wallst to this comment board...he likes to call people LOSERS and use what he thinks are hip abbreviations...other than that there is completely no substance..just mindless blather.

4 yrs before the 2002 Olympics were to begin, they got caught up in a scandal. Sponsors withdrew & the budget of the Games was nearly $400M over expenditures. A new leader was needed. Utah was at risk financially. The gov. found Mitt Romney, who had a distinguished career in business, helping to start new companies & turn around failing ones.Within weeks of his arrival, Mitt had laid out a revitalized vision for the Games. Mitt assembled a new team to bring the budget under control.He explained that every spending request had to be divided into needs & wants. He called on the people of UT to volunteer to close the gap. The ad he placed in Utah papers read: “Help wanted; hard work, no pay, better hurry.” Fifty thousand people responded. When the Games had concluded, they were an unqualified success. In a world still reeling from the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, people across the globe were assured they could gather in safety to celebrate the highest qualities of the human family. Mitt Romney’s leadership had turned the $400 million deficit into a $100 million surplus. It was a spectacular turnaround. Mitt did the right thing, and he did it extraordinarily well. After the Games, he returned to MA where he was elected governor. His state had a $3 billion deficit & the economy needed a turnaround. With the same discipline he used in business & the Olympics, at the end of 4 yrs he turned it into a $2 billion rainy-day fund.

Wallst -
Romney is a know-nothing? Romney has brains for business and balls to get things done! As a registered Dem who didn't vote for Obama, Obama has no record to run on!! I was unemployed twice on Obama's watch. What has he done for the economy? Unemployment is still high with the wonderful stimulus he passed as well as the omnibus bill he signed soon after that Bush refused to sign. He didn't have the balls to go on TV to sign it like the stimulus. In the words of Obama "There won't that many shovel ready jobs hahaha" The only experience Obama has is nothing but being a below the pond scum community organizer who he and his wife lost their law licenses and can no longer practice law. Why?
Continue drinking the kool-aid!! BTW, this is a different Mary responding!

Yeah, the White House has just been GUSHING with Economic Leadership.

Unemployment: 8.5%

Mike Shortall, Here you go again. Spewing untruths, I don't want to call you an idiot again, but you know the republican led house controls the ability to "create" jobs, not the POS. The only thing he can do is push the fed. To imply the lack of job growth is the POS is mostly false(he could have done much better at reaching accross the isle to build coalitions). Again, you go throwing wood on the fire and walk away.

Curmudgeon,
Now you got it. Yes, I wish Carter had a second term, instead of that idiot Reagan(an embarrassment to all Irish). Yes, I want the EPA to close bussiness that polute. Yes, close federal lands to drilling. Yes, stop fracking in PA. Yes, let SS and Medicare go bankrupt. I understand that you don't have the ability to comprehend the complexities of these issues, but leave it up the intellectuals(aka Democrats).

Joe..is that a beaver on your face? Do you think anyone takes you seriously looking like that? As much as you might like to relive the 60's they are over dude...move on!

He just needs ONE skill the current President lacks: Economic Leadership.

Romney's proven he can help turn around the crappy Economy! His Wealth should celebrated as PROOF that he KNOWS what he's doing.

All President Obama needs for the complete Jimmy Carter Makeover (including the obligatory Foreign Relations Attention Deficit) is a cardigan and a fireplace!

Socialism, like publicly owned police, fire stations and schools. Such horrible things. We should get rid of them too, this is America after all, not some euro socialist paradise. I say we all vote to privatize all socialist programs!

I hope you have money to pay for your children's education because otherwise they'll be uneducated unskilled workers making as little as possible.

I hope you have money to pay for your police bill, because otherwise when you get assaulted/robbed/stolen from I guess you're shit out of luck.

I hope you have money to pay for your fire bill, because otherwise when your house catches on fire you're shit out of luck.

I hope you have money to pay for your health insurance, because otherwise when you get sick you're shit out of luck. -- oh wait!

thank you!!! i share your thoughts Bringing Truth To Stupid but we can never change the thoughts of other. Most americans think that the roads are repaved for free or all gov agencies and schools run without cost. we can all digress now and just play little house on the prairie because that is going to get us real far.

jackaroe,

No. It has more to do with the waste and fraud in our social programs. And people like you probably consider it a good use of taxpayer money to replace perfectly good street signs because they are printed in all capital letters - and then you call that infrastructure. And most people like you feel that if our kids are failing in our current school system, it's because there is not enough money being spent in the school system.

And don't talk to me about Police. I have personally seen trumped up charges pressed and moved all the way through the courts only to have them dropped at very last minute. When I asked why they would have gone through all of that I was told - "it's all about the money". More cases, more arrests, and more court hearings. Lawyers get paid. Judges get paid. DA's got paid. Cops/detectives/sergeants got paid. US Marshals got paid. Hundreds of thousands of dollars on a case they knew they would drop. Then they complain about how our court systems also need more money.

Liberals have no concept on how to reduce spending.

Most firefighters in the suburbs are volunteers so no one can complain about the cost of Fire fighters around here.

I'm a socialist.(I send my kids to school). I'm a socialist(I work as a nurse). I'm a socialist(I coach my kids sports teams, for free no less). I'm a socialist( I volunteer aat our firehouse). I'm a socialist(I drive on public roads). These are all socialist ideas. The fact that the demographics of the GOP are mostly uneducated people(people with college degrees trend democrat) becomes increasingly more obvious when someone reads these posts.

Amen, Mama. Talk it up with other moderate/indies. The media are lying liars, so get the truth out however you can!

Oh, Joe. Turn off MSNBC and seek some real news.

Joe, clue in. You have been bamboozled for 4years by a man that has done nothing but learn his job by failing. His budget, REJECTED 98-0.....that should they'll you something. Nobody agreed with it, nobody! He is still calling the Muslim uprising "unruly folks"......those crazy kids flying airplanes into our buildings! Leadership? Obama? You're kidding, right?

Do me a favor? Just read the Affordable care act.......just read it, and then tell me if you still like the direction this clown is taking our country. I am BETTING you don't read it, as you prefer listening to Pelosi and just support it without reading it.....with that mentality I have some 70 year old German literature you might want to consider as well.....but that was just some Adolph guy spouting off......

Mary, would you like to point out some reputable news sources for us?

And here is what democrats are all about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpAOwJvTOio

If you don't want to click on the link, then google "Obama phone video".

And you believe everything that the so calle mighty one Obama says? Obama is the liar! 4 AMERICANS were murdered and Obama says it was because of a movie!! It was a TERRORIST ATTACK!! Come down from la-la land and join the rest of us in reality!! People were stupid to vote for him 4 years ago.
Obama is one of the 1% - he should spread his wealth!!
Continue drinking the kool-aid!

Oh, Mary. Turn off FAUX and get an education.

Morgan: of course she wont point out reputable news sources because most of what she says is not fact based. Many are clinging to that nutty "Obama Phone" lady on youtube and trying to politicize killings that had nothing to do with the topic here. Of course thats Obamas fault too. I'm a registered Rep and voted McCain last go around, I won't be voting that way this time, a lot of what I've seen and read from the Republicans (and from their candidates) on the internet over the course of the last few years makes me ashamed to have ever been. The commenters here just reaffirm my beliefs. The Republicans now aren't the ones of years ago, those days are over but some of the old school refuses to believe it. Romney/Ryan aren't our buddies unless you are one of the rich. But...its hard even for the republicans to believe that anyone can be that heartless, even if its true and the FACTS are readily available.

You may not have been logged in to your Patch account prior to commenting. Nothing was removed. We accept all comments as long as they don't violate our terms of service. Make sure you are logged in prior to contributing. Thanks.

Thanks Courtney. It was showing as pending for hours. I thought I was logged in.

Romney dodged the draft and others went to serve our country in his place and yet you claim that he is a "patriot"? I wonder if any who went in his place died?

If seniors knew only half the truth, the'd RUN TO ROMNEY.

No Way! Senior are for Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan. Why? For those 55 and over, medicare and social security will not be changed, but will be saved for those who are under 55. Why? Because Obama has raided $716 million from medicare which has not been implemented yet. Why? The IRS must hire thousands of new IRS employees to implement Obamacare or be checking your Federal return. Why? Yes, there are the so-called, death panels in Obamacare who will decide whether you can have treatment or not. Therefore, seniors are FOR Romney.

That money that Obama "raided" is a plan supported by Obama, Romney and Ryan. All of them have included that in their plans [1]. Additionally that money has not been "raided", "pilfered" or otherwise taken from Medicare. What that number comes from is a number of changes to bring down the cost of healthcare in the future [2]. Before you go spouting off your bullshit source your information or shut up. Stop showing your ignorance to the entire world.

[1] http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/08/fact-check-obama-ryan-romney-backed-medicare-cuts/
[2] http://www.factcheck.org/2012/08/medicares-piggy-bank/

Amen.

Seriously Sir no wear has President Obama ever tried to take away your 1st and 2nd amendment rights. Your party was the one to put any amendments on those rights. Your hatred blinds you. Your words reak of fear. The President is a different color than you. Get over it. Have you ever even read the Constitutions or the Bill of Right? I carry them with me in my purse. Why because this country has accomplished what no other country in the world has, given it's people hope to accomplish anything as long as the laws of this country apply to all. It's a reminder to me what this country was founded on that we all have a right no mater what race,religious order,male or female,sexual orientation we all have a right to LIFE,LIBERTY and the Pursuit of Happiness.

Louis, I want to take away YOUR 2nd Amendment rights. Your CRAAAZY. I scared that YOU might own a gun.

talking about the Panahou school graduate? http://www.punahou.edu/page.cfm?p=1793

Do you mean Obama at his private Hawaiian school? Or how he got "foreign aid" at other universities? Of course, it's all "SEALED." So much for transparency. Lying liar.

Actually those young cadets were very much enjoying the speeches. I give them a lot of credit, the doors opened 2 hours before the event speeches started...and it had to be quite warm on that stage in those uniforms and under the lights. They were examples of young people we should ALL be proud of. Their color guard performed with excellence as did the two who sang the National Anthem. They did VFMA, Wayne and the USA proud. It was a very well organized event and all speakers were succinct and on time. As I said before, I'll crawl over broken glass to vote 0bama out and get back to getting this country back on its feet.

Well, those poor kids were in full dress uniforms, under lights, and because of massive security, had to be seated for hours before the event. I saw a lot of clapping and happy faces when Mitt arrived....

Nerd ---I am guessing you EARNED that nickname versus having to be GIVEN it, like Obama's Nobel prize. You are the epitome of Obama followers.....point, those KIDS are the future of this country. They learn a creed of God, Country, Honor, Respect and Patriotism. They will be DEFENDING this country (if there remains one to defend) and they will be leading this country (unless NERDS like yourself destroy it before they get a chance). No, these boys aren't smiling, because presently their lives and the future they hope to achieve are being destroyed. YOUR BOY likes making people smile, like the dunce in the corner who doesn't know what day it is and doesnt care....but your having' a good time partying' with all the other ill/mis-informed "folks". If ignorance is bliss, you may be the happiest man on the planet. Unfortunately for these young men who actually understand what is happening to their country, and actually CARE, it is such the party scene that you see or want....Nerd, yeah, I can see how that stuck!

John - the difference between you and I is that i use my real name.
You are a troll. (I have been blogging as Joe the Nerd since 2006. My company is called Find A Nerd Computer Services...)

BTW - If I were one of these Cadets, I would be scared out of my mind that someone like Mitt Romney would misuse my services that I am freely offering this society.

Romney is talking tough about Iran - these are the kids who will have to back that up. Do you want your kid going to Iran?

Troll, huh. You sit in your comfy chair, promoting a guy (POS) who doesn't even know when he is being spit upon.....or maybe, just maybe POS doesn't give a damn about his military. How many times has POS actually visited our troops abroad? I am guessing you and your little computer business might be able to Google that......my guess is far fewer than he appeared on Letterman, the View or any other POS supporting group, not to mention he other millionaires and billionaires he likes rubbing shoulders with.....he is nothing but a scam....his administration, his family, from california, to Indonesia to Africa....with a background chock full of communism.....but that doesnt bother you with your little business.......but I will tell you who it REALLY offends.....people like me with children abroad providing you and the POS the opportunity to sit in your chair, own a business, eat, sleep and breath. But no, you challenge how much FUN someone is having..so grow up and beware who you challenge before you join the POS. I can see why you would be scared...fortunately you and the other POS have brave people like my children who aren't scared of Iran, aren't scared of Afghanistan and aren't scared of anyone else, including a NERD computer guy who likes spouting off when he has no idea what he is referring!!

Rather than continue the banter, I will simply say from my children and the thousands of other parents whose children provide daily security to this country.....YOUR WELCOME!

Joe -
I want to clear the record. My brother attended Valley Forge Military and then went into the military and has been deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan having too many deployments. At Valley Forge Military, they are taught NOT to show emotion for some who continue to join the military. It teaches them that if they do join the military and are at war, you do what you have to do to protect the United States! You shoot to kill with no emotion!! That is where "not a smile on ANY of them" stems from. They are taught!! If Obama was there, they would NOT have a smile on their faces. That is why when they come home, a lot of them suffer from post-traumatic stress!! Think about it! Do you think that if Obama attended, they would be doing a happy dance? My brother being in the military shows no emotion: when he is angry or sad. He keeps his emotions to himself!!

Mary - you are relating exactly why I am mocking the Romney Campaign.

The Romney Campaign vibe is worse than an all-you-can Broccoli buffet.. It is obvious that NO ONE is having any fun out there.

Going to a place where the kids are trained to be stoic underlines a 'no fun' guy trying to be Presidential.

The kids are doing what they are told - fine - I am not ripping them.

I am looking at the very weird optics of the whole thing.

John - you are on offensive piece of trash.

How can you call yourself an American when you attack this President that way when we are at war.

You remember those wars - the ones started under false pretense...

Let me know when we will start to pay for them.

Meredith, YOU ROCK. I'm voting for Obama, but I love to hear of young people excercising their civic duties.

what voter fraud is that?

you mean the debacle costing $10's of millions of dollars to make people get ids?

Hey Fuzz face.."the Nerd" fits perfectly...go with it!

if all you can do is rip on my facial hair, that mean you are pointing an unloaded gun.

That's all I really need to do Joe...did you ever hear about first impressions? That train from the 60's left the station a long time ago.

Many places today ask for picture ID's-eg.hospitals, banks-I cannot understand why people are balking about this-my mom did not have a picture ID and when she needed one, to be treated at a hospital, we took her to Penn Dot and she got one-she has had it for years-who in this day of added security would not have a picture ID?

JF, your I hope you get better. It seems that the brain surgery you had wasn't successful. Hopefully, your high up on the donor list for a new one. I let Mensa know that you'll miss the next meeting.

Why such a hater Mary?

You forgot Fox "News," the Republican party's propaganda channel masquerading as journalism.

Yes, Frank, but people are still choosing corruption. That is their choice. They could chose differently starting today. All those choosing corruption will regret it. Just a matter of time. They would be wise to chose differently. What can anyone do for those who chose so unwisely? We chose our own fate and destiny in the end. And, that end is coming down. Fast.

Frank, it's all of them, everywhere. It's a conspiracy. You know you can get your psych meds filled now.

Amend, Please explain how you were "assisted" with your student loan and how Obamacare is going to effect your business since none of the effects of that have been felt yet. Thanks.

Oh, JF. I almost wish you knew what you thought you knew, but you would be dangerous with a brain.,

Amend, are you in for a surprise! The "Affordable Care" Act is anything but. 1) Even if you don't have employees, you personally are still required - by the government - to purchase insurance whether you want to or not; 2) I would hope you would like to grow your business, and if you do as soon as you take on additional employees you are affected by a host of government problems; 3) what makes you think that anything in Obamacare OR Universal health care is cost efficient? 4) What makes you think that the Bible's admonition to assist those less fortunate is someone else's responsibility? It is directed towards You - and at no place is it given to government.

I respect the fact that you are at least attempting to take personal responsibility and pay off your student loan. While you may be for universal healthcare the fact of the matter is we are 16 trillion in debt and now the government has strapped us with a huge new entitlement. I think you would agree my friend THAT is not fiscally prudent. I also respect and admire your Christian tenets but you and I as individuals have the ability to assist the less fortunate. I assist those that I choose to assist I don't need the government mandating it for me.

Tim Lews is right.
The biggest joke about Obama's "healthcare" act?
It has nothing to do with health or care.
15,000 IRS agents to be hired?
Forced participation?
Penalties?
Death panels (oh, yes!)

I'm sure the government will run our lives, from conception (when life begins) to death just as well and efficiently as they run the post office and Amtrak.....

@amend...I previously recommended that you READ the ACA. Once you have made that investment, you will be shocked.

As for the ACA, I sincerely think that anyone who supports it hasn't read it. In it is the reduction allowance in FSA, limiting the amount of pre-tax dollars. This probably won't affect you, but if you had a special needs child, you would realize that this limitation will cost you at least 25% more to care for that child. Additionally, there are taxes coming in 2013 that will begin penalizing insurance companies who show profits, where their stock will drop, and eventually there will be a single payor. Next, you need to know that many providers, who are being taxed due to their income, will also see reductions in reimbursement...less $ for the provider. If you look at healthcare in Canada, Mexico and Europe, there is a caste system...those who can afford, c'mon in, those who require public care...take a number and have a seat. The present helthcare system presently treats the majority equally..just walk in any emergency room...care first, how you're paying second...Before you spout what you WANT, you need to educate yourself as to what you wish for. If you read the ACA, and you decide to continue to support it....then you can at least speak in fact rather than the rhetoric from the media.

Get ready to pay out your wa-zoo with the Affordable Care Act!! I wish you the best but you don't know what you are in for! You and anybody else thinks the Affordable Care Act aka Obamacare is worthy were living under a rock. Get ready like the rest of us to dig in you/our pockets. All you may have left is "Change". So much for Hope and Change. Best wishes but you are screwed!! People will realize it come mid-November when they have to enroll for 2013 insurance. How do I know? I work for a company that deals with companies health insurance. Our writers have to write gently how much they, the employee will now have to pay for their insurance. The kick in the pants? They won't get the information until AFTER the election...it will come out the people are angry about it!! Mark my words! Do yourself a favor...vote Romney! Just saying. Better to be fore warned.

The chicken or the egg? Money does not grow on trees. I am okay with assisting those less fortunate. However, I do not consider lazy people to be less fortunate. I consider them lazy and the only way they will change their lazy ways is if we stop rewarding them for their laziness! So cut the numbers by 75% and that will get us down to helping the less fortunate.

You and I are not so far apart on these issues...

Abortion and gay rights shouldn't be an issue for the government to payroll or promote either.

Amend - we had what you are hoping for in 1990's.....it was called HMOs....people still went to McDonald's more than they visited their doctor. People dont prevent well, not to mention its unaffordable...people paying a $5 co-pay...it's cheaper to see your doc that have a double cheeseburger...yet it still failed. People need to WANT to get healthier...and based upon the recent studies show, that just ain't happening. personal responsibility, like paying your bills, maintaining good health and avoiding things that are bad for you (cigarettes).....the government can't force that...thorny is nice, but personal responsibility comes from within.

I didn't say the Bible has no place in government, only that the Bible does not give responsibility for the poor to government, only individuals. The only roles given to government in the Bible is to maintain order and dispense justice. I think Abortion falls quite nicely under that responsibility.

and mecca.

It takes a very small mind to champion settling ideological differences with blanket destruction. Isn't intolerant violence the very thing you are opposed to in the Middle East?

Morgan king, what leader allows our ambassadors to be brutally murdered by a terrorist attach without a consequence to the attackers? Then, apologizes for our freedom of speech? This man is horrible! Blames everyone but himself! And the media creates and supports his spin! There is NOTHING about the last 4 years that helped this country grow, economy, foreign policy, partisan, etc. leadership crosses all parties! It unites not divides. This president follows the divide and conquer rule! Spin the truth, spread the wealth! Watch it all fall apart! Then a true dictator can continue his effort....

Brunell, I'd assume the kind of leader that recognizes that Al-Qaeda uses our violence as a recruiting tool, and that an endless cycle of retaliation doesn't lead to peace. Also, that condemning hate speech isn't an abridgment of free speech, much less an apology.

Amend, you are going into the weeds trying to confuse the issue. Planned Parenthood (funded by the government) pays for and promotes abortions. I said NOTHING about Republicans and Christianity. You are merely stating what your opinions are and show no evidence that wealthy Christians or the private sector are turning their backs on the poor. Luckily I am very well off and myself as well as many corporations that I am familiar with give PLENTY. So unless you have some evidence to the contrary don't try to confuse the issue. I can assure you I have plenty to refute your claims.

At some point we should all really discuss the false benevolence of charitable donations - this whole political season we've been talking about it like the amount of money given away is some sort of measure of decency and contrasted it with government support services which are, apparently, a socialist dependency scam.

Donating money to a cause you support is, to varying degrees, self-serving (the vast majority of Romney's charitable donations went right back to his own church, for example) and it creates a system where the giver has huge levels of control over the beneficiaries of that donation (such as cutting off funds if the organization or individual does something you disagree with). True benevolence is giving funds to be used as the people who receive it deem necessary, whether you personally agree with it or not, whether you know about their needs or not, and whether it furthers your own positions or not. In other words: paying taxes.

The Conservative rhetoric about charitable donations this year has been just over the top in its blatant hypocrisy, which has basically boiled down to "I want to help poor people, just not THOSE poor people." That's not charity.

"when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others."

Its "obviously" not happening, mostly because government took that role on itself and actively dscourages outside help.

Amend and Morgan King-- thank you for your thoughtful and empathic comments. It is unfortunate that you and others get excoriated for expressing your view points and experiences. It is also sad to see that many fail to see that we are all in this together--and no one gets out alive. Compassion and kindness are key to our survival. These traits are not a sign of weakness, but of strength. So much of the ugliness that permeates the comments here is the result of fear. I get anxious regarding the state of this world and I am tempted to resort to name calling at times as well; however, I know that fear is a divider, a deceiver, and a destroyer. I will not let it distract me from remembering that we have more in common than differences we express--our humanity is our salvation.

Tom - since when is pointing out the flaws in someone's thinking "excoriating"? Further, you should stop listening to what the media tells you. No Conservative Republican I know (and I know a lot) is against compassion or kindness, and in most cases they live it. A true conservative believes that, except for certain circumstances, government involvement in handing out money is the Least compassionate thing that can be done in that situation.

Morgan - "when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others."
Do you think that may be one of the reasons Romney did not want his returns published?

Morgan - So what if someone donates to a charity that they like? I would rather that then a government official deciding who gets what. Your faith in government benevolence is humorlessly naive. Reminds me of the story of the Jewish family who was really happy about the free train ride they received from their government.

Thank you for your service. Sempervivum Fi! Hoorah!

Amend, you must not read the Inquirer. They recently published a study that showed Republicans, who tend to be Christians, give far more to charity than Democrats. Stands to reason, if you don't belong to a church, you don't contribute. The study pointed out that Democrat's feel their taxes substitute for charitable giving. So, by that logic, Republican Christians give twice as much, taxes+charity, than non-Christian Democrats. Check it out; it's readily available.

That same study also based its results on who was claiming charitable donations on their tax returns to reduce their taxable income, so it is skewed towards people who don't want to pay taxes. If Democrats view taxes as charity, as the study found, then it follows that they would not take those deductions. Furthermore, it doesn't clarify to what extent the religious donations were simply given to the donor's own church.

Morgan, it found that states who voted Republican gave far more to charity than states who voted for BHO. Also, as anyone who contributes knows, it's a money losing proposition, not a 1:1 tax reduction. If you in the same bracket as BHO and Romney, you only save .14 on the dollar. Much better not to give, which is why the smart folks in the Blue states don't.

And Democratically-leaning states paid more taxes. Regardless, even at 0.14, Romney still saved 56k in 2012 by primarily giving to his own church, right?

Morgan, where did you see "Democratically-leaning states paid more taxes." That was missing from both the AP and UPI accounts. Some of the states who contribute the most to charity are also among the poorest, so you may be right, but where did you read that? Also, I have no way of knowing when my contribution goes, anymore than BHO or Romney knows. Many religions, like the LDS, have ambitious programs feeding and caring for the poor, so they do encourage giving, that's for sure. BTW, Romney would have saved millions more by not giving. Do the math.

Morgan, if you feel you will save money by giving it away to charity - like people in the Red states did - I encourage you to join them, and enjoy the windfall. Safe Harbor in WC is a good, non-religious charity, who would love to help you enjoy the same tax savings as Romney.

There's a bunch of reports on it - here's one for the last decade:
http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2011/08/americas-fiscal-union

and this one's pretty partisan, but it's the clearest chart:
http://allhatnocattle.net/blog7/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Chart-of-Red-State-Socialism.jpg

I'm not saying it's saving money, I'm saying it's not exactly charity if it benefits you directly AND you get a tax break on it. Does Romney not benefit from a wealthier LDS church? Also, sorry - my earlier math was off by an extra 0 - it's 560k in untaxed money. It's not in his own offshore account, sure, but are we really pretending it's not a personal interest of his? I'm not trying to say that this is even a really relevant argument, but mostly that this whole moral grandstanding over charitable donations is a pretty flimsy platform.

@Vicki-explain to me how i'm a Christian hater. Personally, i dig Jesus, but I dislike what many do in his name, like calling others a leach (i don't think Jesus would approve of that, do you?). I also don't dislike republicans as a whole, tho I take issue with many of their stances as they seem to be hypocritical, self-contradicting and fixated on only a small portion of the populace. It shouldn't matter if I'm Muslim or not. My parents were'nt able to help pay for my college, so I worked summers and took out loans like countless other people (guess they're leaches too). As for how my wife and I decide how to structure our finances, that's really none of your business. As an aside tho, and a point of clarity, I own a business myself that we run out of our retail location that I man 40+ hours a week. I also take on freelance clients whenever possible. We volunteer for our community, donate where we can, and look out for our neighbors when needed. So, you might want to hesitate before judging others (again, I don't think Jesus would like you doing that). It's easy to call yourself a Christian, it's another thing to live like one, and going to church every Sunday doesn't cut it. Even Jesus would tell you that.

Amend, How about we just leave Jesus out of this as neither you or I are capable of preaching like he did? You keep talking about "from the information I've seen" when it comes to planned parenthood and Obamacare. Can you please explain where that information comes from? You seem to only be concerned with one side of the issue which lends me to believe you are relying on left leaning websites or news sources. A recent undercover video shows a planned parenthood employee telling a patient she can/should abort her unborn child simply because it was not the sex she wanted. That same worker also tell the women that she can help her get medicaid to pay for it. Any way you slice it that is an answer to both your questions. You continue to pull this link between Republicans and Christianity out of the air. Maybe your living in a different world but I don't see any such promotion. Unless your going to provide some evidence just say it's your opinion and you don't really have any evidence to back it up. As I stated before Americans as a country (individuals and corporations) give more to charity than any nation on earth. We are caring for the poor. You just don't get that information from the left leaning websites you follow. I guess it's just not enough for you.

@JF- I have no problem leaving Jesus out of the discourse. It's others who bring him into the dialogue. I'm merely reacting to his inclusion by them. To my original point, people shouldn't invoke his word if they aren't willing to live it. It's my opinion that the Republican party uses Jesus as a talking point, but fail to follow his teachings as is evident in their platform of feed the rich and starve the poor. What I hear often from their party is that we are a Christian nation first. That God's word is law, and that Democrats are godless communists bent on ruining our country. I think anyone who doesn't see that as being a prime tenet of the republican party (not republicans as a whole) simply isn't paying very close attention or they are purposely ignoring that truth.

@JF- As for where I gather my information, it comes from a myriad of different sources, tho I lean heavily on NPR as I find them to be the most balanced and informative. I look at fact check sites, and the CBO for clarity on information I gather. I find FOX News deplorable and CNN is more a joke these days. Beyond that, I chat on blogs with people from both sides of the aisle so I can make an informed opinion, if that's possible. Regarding your example of the person working for Planned Parenthood, even if that were true (I'm not saying it isn't, just that I can't say it is based on your stating it to be such) one workers faults shouldn't be cast onto an entire organization. And, I openly admit my ignorance regarding the ACA. I'm asking questions to open discourse so I can be more informed. From what I've read, "Obamacare" is almost identical to what Romney put forth in Mass. That is an occasion where I agree with Romney. That's all I'm trying to say about that. If he was so smart in Mass. and was able to demonstrate savings, how can that not be seen as happening with ACA which is almost identical?

Amend, I got news for you. NPR is not well known for being non partisan. I now know why you feel the way you do on the issues. Again, leave Jesus out of this and tell me exactly how the Republicans platform preaches feeding the rich and starving the poor. BE SPECIFIC PLEASE. DO not just make a blanket liberal talking point. You keep doing this. Again I never hear people using the words you proclaim in reference to Dems. While I do believe their ideas are wrong for the country I do not hear anyone saying they are godless communists. The Planned Parenthood story is indeed true and can be verified online. It was frequently mentioned in the mainstream press so I'm surprised you did not hear of it. The CBO is frequently in the news in regards to Obamacare and most of the time it has to do with them changing the numbers..for the worse I'm afraid. If you rely on them for your info then I think you would be hard pressed to support Obamacare especially as a small business owner. By the way you never responded to my point that America is the most charitable nation on earth. Did I change your mind about how much we take care of the poor or did you just conveniently end that part of the discussion? I don't believe you are the most open minded person that you profess to be. I think you are firmly in the liberal democratic corner. Just please don't tell me you follow factcheck.org because that will just seal the deal.

@JF- regarding specifics, the idea of giving further tax breaks to the rich in hopes that they might create jobs, is indeed an act of feeding the rich and starving the poor. It's also a blatant fallacy as the notion of trickle down has yet to trickle down. Instead, that practice has caused wealth to percolate to the top. Cutting social programs that assist the poor like turning medicare into a voucher program which will leave financial gaps for the recipients to deal with, eliminating funding for planned parenthood, cutting funding to the department of education, he's spoken out against food stamps, and that's just what comes to me as I type. Not to mention how incredible vague he's been regarding those cuts, how deep they would be, and what he plans to do for those affected. Add onto that, Paul Ryan who is equally as vague, loves Ayn Rand for her praise of the individual and disdain for charity and yeah...those two concern me. I disagree with your observation of NPR. They are far more balanced then most news outlets, even if they are progressive. FOX News tends to be the most right leaning, and even they have been critical of Romney as of late.

@JF- As for your point regarding charity, it's not my position to argue that our country isn't very charitable, it's that we obviously aren't doing enough to take care of those who are most needy. Further, I would say that it is the inequity in our economic system that is creating a larger need for charity, and where that charity falls short, the government must step in. Unless we are comfortable having poor people die in the streets on a more frequent basis. You can't have it both ways. You can't say it's ok to concentrate wealth while at the same time saying that you don't feel like taking care of the poor. That's like saying, "let them eat cake",

Amend, I think the sooner you admit that you are not open minded the better for all of us. Again, you go off on these strange tangents about the poor. I'm sorry it's just not making sense. As far as medicare and Paul Ryan's plan I will submit that he at least has submitted a proposal to save the program because even the Dems admit it will not be there unless it is fixed. They however submit NOTHING! I am disappointed that you do little more than spew Democratic talking points that you hear on NPR. It was a fun discussion but I see you for what you are now. Peace.

JF- how am I not being open-minded? I'm also not sure why you aren't able to follow my conversation regarding the poor, or why you see it as tangential. Could it be that you simply aren't that concerned about that subject so you reduce it to a non-sensical tangent? it's not like I didn't agree with Romney on his approach to healthcare in Mass. Does that then mean he's a leftist, or is that title reserved for only those who don't agree with you?

Amend. Oh I am able to follow your conversation and then some. You deliberatly try to confuse the issue..and don't try to intimidate me by using big words because you don't. I already told you I donate PLENTY to the less fortunate so your conversation about the poor does not intimidate me or confuse me. Your a leftist liberal Dem fro Easton...so I'm sure some of my contributions to the less fortunate are headed your way. PS: Get a freaking second job and pay your student loans and and stop sucking off the government.

Truth hurts...stick that in your tangential and smoke it!

@JF- your judgement and hostility doesn't make your point more valid, and is itself a tangent. It's a standard tactic for a person, when their argument is weak or their logic faulted, to attack the person on the opposite side of the discussion instead of staying focused on the topic being discussed.

Sell your possessions, and give to the needy. - Luke 12:33

You shall not harden your heart or shut your hand against your poor brother, open your hand to him and lend him sufficient for his need, whatever it may be. - Deuteronomy 15:7

Those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. - 1 Timothy 6:9

Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have - Hebrews 13:5

Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you. - Matthew 5:42

Morgan, exactly. That's why the Red states contribute more to charity. Everyone helps the poor via their taxes, whether they want to or not, but voluntarily contributing to charity is mandatory for many religions, especially Christians. Comes with the territory.

Now, Morgan, can you explaqin which one of these is directed to the government?

It's a government by and for the people, and not one based literally on millennium-old philosophy, but one that incorporates the principles of benevolence into it's fiscal operation. I mentioned those passages mostly to illustrate that Mary's argument was hardly a Biblical sentiment.

Why? The government is a much more powerful tool for us to distribute money to myriad causes that affect corners of the nation we individually know nothing about. It might not be the most efficient, but it's certainly the least discriminatory.

Just coffee this afternoon. What can I clarify for you? I know some of this gets a little theoretical.

I dunno - what comment are you referring to? I have a few here. I reread them, and the only thing I thought might be confusing was the difference between discriminatory and discriminating. If that's what you meant, you could replace it with 'biased' or 'predjudiced' perhaps?

Just a general Patch commenting usage it seems like many could use - if you want to reply to a reply, you still have to click the Reply button on the first comment, and then it orders them by timestamp. I hope they fix that for these long threads eventually, because things get pretty chaotic when all the responses go to the bottom.

Hmm - I think that's close to what I was getting at (though I probably should have used 'effect' instead of 'affect' - too late to edit it now!). What I was saying is that our government is a much more powerful and reliable tool for distributing money to a vast variety of social services (or any services) than private charity groups. Less efficient, probably, but much more universal. We have a huge network of representatives from every corner of the country working to fund programs for improving their community, and most of them are responsible to the electorate if the do their jobs poorly. This allows us to give aid and support to people, programs and causes without a strong charity base and without that help being beholden to a private charity's demands (like we saw with Komen earlier this year). I hope that's a little clearer?

Peety - that is BS

The Soc Sec & MediCare people literally beg for lawmakers to address the problem.
http://www.ssa.gov/oact/TRSUM/index.html
I can only name one congressman who has came out with a plan to save MediCare while the administration position is to plunder it to fund PPACA.

The tired old politics of MediScare will cause MediCare to go bankrupt.

Wayne, you know as well as I do that the cuts to Medicare under PPACA are to redundant services between the two programs, and the dissolution of Advantage plans now that there is no longer a need for those middlemen, which is one of many ways that PPACA does exactly what the letter you link to calls for - reducing unnecessary federal expenditures. Here's a great summary of how the programs will be paid for (and some criticism): http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpress/how-does-obamacare-cut-medicare/

Morgan, I know no such thing. Read the entire trustee report --- they state things are getting worse. This report was put out a year after the PPACA passed.

From the 2012 report (you have to read more than the first page):

"In our joint message last year, we warned that both Social Security and Medicare face substantial challenges, and opined that elected officials will best serve the interests of the public if changes are enacted at the earliest possible time. This year we sound the same warning but with greater urgency. The reasons for the increased urgency are somewhat different, however, for each program..

The Medicare program’s near-term finances remain qualitatively similar to those described in last year's report, while the reported long-term financial outlook has grown worse."

So wrong - the government, at the federal level, should really only handle defense and education. Although there is an argument for education to be handled at the state level, if everyone has a reasonable opportunity to get a good education, then they have no business whining about blowing that opportunity later.

JMO - though democrats would argue that it is not fair that some people are smarter than others!

Truth--keeping you and your family in my thoughts. It is sad that there is such vilification of those needing help. I do believe that otherwise good people are swayed by their fears, which appear to cloud their insight (and access, presumably, to their "better angels"), resulting in very ugly and negative comments. I agree that both candidates are flawed; however, Mr. Romney's behavior (both past and present) suggest that he lacks the empathy and character necessary to temper his policies and leadership style for the good of the country and all of its citizens. I pray that whoever leads this country will lead with compassion for all citizens and with respect for all the people in the world. Please turn a deaf ear to those who might (and judging from the tenor of many of the comments, will) chastise you or shrilly YELL at you (lol). It is my belief that one day kindness and genuine humanity will inform the way our country is run--and then we will truly be the strongest country on earth. Take care!

Truth, be specific..how exactly does Romney want to take away your disabled child's medical coverage and expensive medication? Again, BE SPECIFIC and give examples of his heartless and inhumane polices! I'll be surprised if we hear back from you!

Can't do it, because the True truth is that it is not so.

The Atlantic has a pretty good breakdown of concerns over Ryan's Medicaid cuts:

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/08/is-medicaid-doomed-how-ryans-plan-would-affect-americas-very-poorest/261070/

Truth,

Most Republicans would love to spend more money helping people like your son and making it easier for folks in your situation to get assistance. You and your son are not the one's bankrupting this country (see my later post and you will see the folks we are aggravated with). Our differences are in how we think we should pay for better services for those that really need it. I say we do it, by cracking down on fraud in our social programs. For every single person like your son, there are 20 that abuse our system.

There is no way the Romney camp wants to take away from disabled children - my God I can't believe the things people actually believe.

@truth, read the Affordable care act. If you use an FSA to help with the bills for your child, you will be limited to tax-free $2500, where today there is no limitation. Add to that the need to increase taxing on anyone greater than 133% poverty ---that's $48,000. This law was written so nobody would read all 2400 pages. I am here to tell you the original law is online, and if you see the fonts of the text, it is really only 971 pages. Point being, who is really going to read 2400 pages of law. Well I did, and I am here to tell you that you need to read it. STOP listening to ALL MEDIA, all politicians and READ THE LAW. Once you do YOU will have the facts, not the Cliffnotes from some political viewpoint. You will see what you presently support, and I promise you will NOT be happy!

Please explain how it is or don't bother speaking. Details? Facts? I think I provided several below on why Romney is an endangerment but have seen very little on the other side fact wise.

Dana - that is all they have left.

@Dana- trying to insult people and marginalize their opinion isn't actually you making a point. Further, if you read my other posts you would have realized that I own another business other than the one I run for my wife. Again, how my wife and I structure our finances is not really your business. Having to defer repaying my college loan due to the economy doesn't make me a taker by any means, but you trying to insinuate that it does only shows your bias and lack of open-mindedness. NPR is a very respected news outlet all over the world. FOX news, not so much. Perhaps you should question where your info is coming from. And be real. 47% of the population isn't "working the system" or dead beats. That's another produce of a clear bias. And if we're so concerned about those working the system, why aren't we equally outraged at those of means who do all they can to not pay what is due?

Oh Dana, I won't waste my time or yours. I appreciate your comments however, as they help to elucidate that this forum is not about discussion, learning or listening. Thank you! in response to your final line above, I can tell you that I get many of my "walking points" from a site (site!) called " Mapmyrun.com"-- it even allows you to get the mileage when you plot your run/ walk! And it's free! (I'm just kidding with you, I have bad vision and fat fingers, so I can't "throw stones" at others who make typos. lol.) Anyway, take care and peace be with you.

Amend, I continue to learn more about your situation, it becomes more concerning as to your political direction. You own your own business, and you "run" another business that is your wife's , because she is working elsewhere and her employer is providing your family with benefits, while you defaulted on a school loan, that the government helped you with? Wow. I too am business owner. I am faced with the fact that I will be challenged ahead to keep my employees based upon to additional requirements Obamacare will be placing upon us in 2013. As you have posted in the past you have no employees, so you can skirt the issue of providing healthcare. I can only hope that your wife's employer doesn't have to make cuts, or only insure her, thereby creating an issue that you will HAVE to provide health insurance for yourself, as you are a sole proprietor, and you are included under Obamacare as an employee (ie "self-employed"). The loopholes in Obamacare will allow your wife's employer to pay a tax so they won't have to provide insurance for either of you, and as it stands right now, it's just $2000. Considerably less than what they are paying now for an employee and spouse. My point is that your school loan may be the least of your concerns. This is why I don't think you understand what you are supporting. And that knock on your door, it's 1 of the 18,000 new federal IRS agents who might be asking you how you afford 2 businesses and cannot maintain a school loan?

@John- thanks, but i don't really need your false concern, or you attempt to define me. All you know are words on a screen. Its a standard tactic, when someone's argument is weak, to address the individual on the opposite side instead of the issue being discussed.

If you really think we're headed towards Sharia Law, you are beyond deluded.

If you think we are not, you are blind.

Ok, Tim Lewis, please explain by what means that is going to happen, since its so very clear.

Obama at the UN a few days ago -- "The future does not belong to those who would slander the prophet of Islam."
In Islamic law, sharia, a barbaric way of life for Muslims worldwide that includes: stoning, beheadings, female genital mutilation (the chopping off of clitoris and labia), blaspehmy (slandering the "prophet") is punishable by death.
Muslims may not, according to THEIR law, slander their prophet or draw him.
That law has been extended to every non-Muslim worldwide, as we see violence erupt over cartoons, drawings, movies, etc.
The torture, rape and murder of our Ambassador in Libya is on Hillary's and Barack's hands, It was a well-planned attack and had nothing to do with a video on youtube. Yet the administration is STILL LYING about it. Even Libya says so!
In Dearborn, MI, the other day, there was a rally to enforce Islamic blasphemy laws in the US.
A prominent "moderate" NJ Imam recently called for the repeal of our First Amendment, because it, in theory, protects Americans when speaking truth about the violent ideology known as Islam.
Notice that Christianity can be openly mocked without calls for violence or hate speech crimes.
This is where Barack Hussein Obama is leading us.
The brave truth-speakers will be silenced.
BEACUSE whether American realize it or not ISLAM itself has declared war on the West, and how can we defend ourselves if we cannot name and study the threat?

Mary,

Nice job at picking one sentence out of a longer speech and using it to justify your insanity.

Here's some more from that speech:

"The impulse towards intolerance and violence may initially be focused on the West, but over time it cannot be contained. The same impulses toward extremism are used to justify war between Sunni and Shia, between tribes and clans. It leads not to strength and prosperity but to chaos. In less than two years, we have seen largely peaceful protests bring more change to Muslim-majority countries than a decade of violence. And extremists understand this. Because they have nothing to offer to improve the lives of people, violence is their only way to stay relevant. They don’t build; they only destroy. [...] The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam. But to be credible, those who condemn that slander must also condemn the hate we see in the images of Jesus Christ that are desecrated, or churches that are destroyed, or the Holocaust that is denied."

He's speaking against radical islam, against Jihad and Sharia law. He's calling for an end to slandering Islam, but he's also calling for them to stop desecrating images of Jesus Christ, churches and denying the Holocaust.

And shame on you for trying to politicize the tragedy that happened at our Embassy in Libya. What happened there is not a political talking point, have some respect for the people hurt and killed there.

That in no way explains how religious tolerance as a part of international relations equates to the imminent installation of strict Quran-based precepts into the legal code of the US. That's absolutely paranoid, delusional nonsense

Just consider the logistics of that. Even if the President IS a secret militant Muslim sleeper agent who has risen to the most powerful position on earth, through the most intensive scrutiny possible, he'd still have to secretly convince thousands of government workers, and then millions of law and military, to go along with a top-to-bottom rewrite of basically every law that has ever been written in this country, and that's assuming they could even all agree on which of the many versions of Sharia they wanted to force on their helpless electorate.

Or, just perhaps, its that decades of efforts to demonize people different from yourself by religious authorities and fear-mongering pundits has, in fact, scared you so thoroughly of a nightmarish fantasy world that you are seeing signs of it where they simply don't exist. That, and Sharia stems mostly from a fundamentalist take on the Ten Commandments myth - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia#Justice

You'll note, this is why America was founded with a strong separation of church and state - so that there could never be religious tyranny in this country. The system itself rejects it. It's why we reject Biblical law, why we would reject Quranic law, and any other religious doctrine.

I never said I was in love with Obama either. I'm voting for the lesser of the evils and to be quite frank, Romney/Ryan scares the hell out of me and if voting for Obama is me doing my part to help keep Romney/Ryan out of the White House....so be it . Voting for a third party would be throwing the vote away so that is the only real choice for me personally..... whattheheckhasobamadonesofar.com

Tell me why I should tell someone who can't even do the basics to independently verify the claims of a crazy person on youtube anything? Here i'll give you a tip, the so called "Obama phone" was not a creation of Obama's, he's never made any promises, campaign or otherwise about it. Idiots like you are why we can't have nice things. Please refrain from spreading your stupidity in the future without doing the due diligence to verify what you're posting.

I think i'm going to go somewhere and hold a Romney poster and spout off some nonsense about Romney. Obviously with the mental fortitude of posters like you this will become not only Romney's platform, but the shining beacon of the entire Republican party.

Bringing Truth To Stupid,

No verification was needed - it is just a video of a person that liberals like to support. And my observation of how I see a lot of democrats - very much like the lady in the video (or at least supportive of "getting theirs"). I never suggested that Obama promised phones to people for their vote - although that is the perception that folks get when they enjoy an increase in their standard of living without putting in any effort to earn that increase. And they will surely vote for them if they feel that a new president may use asset tests or drug testing to cut their freebies. Or if they do not allow them to buy lobster, steak and b-day cakes with their food stamps while leasing a new car, smoking a pack of cigarettes a day and having a $200 per month cable bill and an i-phone.

We can't have "nice things"? Because of "idiots like me" don't want to pay for other people's "nice things"?

What would you call raising taxes on only the top earners in this country? I call it a bribe. Vote for Obama and he will advocate raising taxes on those making +200K. Why not ask that we go back to Clinton Era tax rates - since everyone thinks things were so good under Clinton.

I will tell you why - he would then be advocating raising taxes on the majority and he would lose. The only reason he may win this election is because he is promising that a vote for him will result in more stuff for the majority - by making the rich "pay their fair share."

Hey look, yet another idiot who spews lies. First off I'm going to be guessing that you're lying about being registered Democrat but maybe you've gotten dumber over time.

First off the Obama's have not "Lost" their licenses to practice law. They have voluntarily inactivated them to avoid the need for continuing education and hundreds of dollars a year in fees. They can both reactivate them at any time and practice law again.[1]

This "Spreading the Wealth" is the worst talking point. Democrats, and especially the Democrats of today do not want to "Spread the Wealth". A strong lower and middle class are a requirement for a strong economy. By providing services that support the lower and middle classes you free up their dollars to purchase products. When they purchase products that means that businesses will have a higher demand and will be able to hire more people and pay their workers more. This in turn will give those workers more disposable income to buy products, keeping the cycle going boosting the economy and yes, making the people at the top wealthy. This is economics 101, it's taught in high schools across the country, maybe you should go back and try to learn this time?

I look forward to the debate too, but for a different reason, "Mittens" has categorically proven he is incapable of speaking without making massive gaffs. I'm sure this debate will provide several new hilarious gems from Mittens.

[1] http://www.factcheck.org/2012/06/the-obamas-law-licenses.

Hey Stupid.

Why don't you take your own advise?

And factcheck.org? LOL!

Hey JF,

I provided sources (which itself has multiple sources). Provide your own or shut up.

You sound like a racist pig.

Enough said.

I'll bring civility to the conversation when idiots stop spewing lies and rhetoric and start bringing sources not lies.

Bringing Truth To Stupid,

Your screen name says everything I need to know about what you are all about...

I'm about bringing truth to stupid. Pretty simple concept really. I'm only one guy but hey if I convince even one person to not listen to rhetoric and independently verify claims before running off at the mouth then I'll have done some good.

Bringing Truth To Stupid,

Post under your real name and your thoughts and ideas will probably be toned down to the point where someone may actually give consideration to your opinion.

You appear only to be a bomb throwing leftist.

At least Ryan has a plan. Obama has none, other than spend even more. You really call that integrity?

Maybe we could compromise and only raise taxes on the 'top earners' who make the majority of their gains in overseas investments and cheap foreign labor? 'Paying your share' is reinvesting in our shared economic ecosystem.

Generalizations are fuzzy, and very wrong. Always remember there are real people behind those abstractions. As for the concentration of wealth - 1) we have never, ever had a "trickle-down" approach in this country; 2) the crash had nothing to do with too much regulation, but too much government intervention in the housing market; 3) you want to grow the pie together, but your previous sentence illustrates you do not understand that concept; 4) the concentration of wealth is caused not by "too little taxes" on the rich, but by a welfare state run amok, which destroys ingenuity, perseverance, and all of the skills necessary to generate wealth.

you mean generalizations like; "47% of the population is dependent on the government and don't want to take responsibility for their own lives" or one where we're slipping into Sharia Law? Trickle Down, Supply Side, Reganomics...whatever you call it, it's still a failed premise. The crash was caused by unfettered risk and leverage. there were multiple access points in the economy that attributed. Housing is just one. Wall Street and major financial institutions were others. It wasn't poor people who caused the crash. On the contrary, you don't understand the concept of prosperity. Wealth concentration is the opposite of prosperity. It's not growing the pie like we were told it was going to. It's what is stymieing growth. It hasn't work to the betterment of all, and to continue defending it as a practice seems illogical. As I stated earlier; as wealth concentrates, poverty expands. You can't walk around blaming all poor people for being poor when we instituted policies that had increased poverty levels while putting more money in the hands of the few. You want fewer people on welfare, then there needs to be more jobs. Giving take breaks to those we call "job creators" hasn't accomplished that.

It's interesting human nature how 2 people can look at the same picture and see such diversity in its meaning . I think we can all agree on the facts that the wealthy have always received some form of break. However, receiving a break isn't illegal, it's actually allowed and developed by congress and senate. Why, because THEY take advantage of these allowances! If I had billions, and allowed to retain overseas accounts, you bet your butt I would do it. It's legal and is being done by thousands, and some not so rich.

I find it interesting that liberals predominantly make up the educators in this country. They teach courses intended to better their students, yet when these students excel and attain wealth they are suddenly the bad guy. @Amend wants everyone to be wealthy. With that, comes socialism, for everyone to achieve equal status in socialism is prescribed, where in a free republic, pure equality is never achievable by all. In this country, education for success is stressed. Some get it, many don't. Is it equally fair to marginalized those who have worked years to attain the American Dream, only to tell them that once they see the financial fruits of your labor, you have to share all of it to achieve equality. Shouldn't everyone drive a Mercedes Benz? Sounds nice, but who is paying the bill?

Need to assess what we strive for. If the carrot is removed, fewer and fewer will attend those colleges, then the liberal professors will be unemployed!

@John- there's a rather big difference in being given a break, and stacking the deck in favor of. And if it's alright for the wealthy to take advantage of the breaks given (since they aren't illegal), then we shouldn't be so up in arms over poor people doing the same. Just sayin', you can't have it both ways.

@John- To further clarify my point, I don't specifically believe that 100% of the population will ever obtain wealth, nor do I think we should all have equal wealth without equal effort or talent. Heck, you can hand wealth to some people and they'll just piss it away. That's the law of percentages. I do believe tho, that the system should encourage growth in all sectors, not just favoring those who are affluent. That's what I meant by growing the pie together. What we have now is lop-sided, and growing even more so, That isn't a positive to me. I'm sure it is to those who are gaining tho, and who could fault them I suppose, but I discard the Darwinian approach to capitalism, and regard it as myopic and short-sighted. I also don't think people would simply stop striving were they to obtain that carrot, or at the very least, a carrot large enough for them to live comfortable. Sure, some people are lazy, but the vast majority of Americans are hard-working people who just want to enjoy the fruits of their labors, and not always have to worry were the next carrot is coming from. And you can't blame them for wanting that either.

@John- To close, and I'm sure I'm repeating myself, giving tax breaks to wealthy people in the hopes that that will equate to job growth is a fallacy, and has had the opposite affect in that it has caused wealth to concentrate and not spread as it was originally intended to. It is illogical to continue offering such tax breaks until that false premise. Further, said tax breaks should be scrutinized and perhaps even repealed. That's not a conversation about class. That's just math.

K. McDonald-
so you want to punish success?

We don't care what Romney does with his money, for he earned it and has done nothing illegal. Did you vote for John Kerry because he and his wife do the same with their millions?
We care more about how Obama wants to re-distribute our money.

Keith Best - How did Romney real "earn it"? He received millions from his father and then used his Ivy League connection to start an investment firm that profits from gutting struggling companies by out sourcing jobs and liquidating pension funds.

I'm am getting tired of this notion that Romney is a great "business man". As many have said before, he is a guy who was born of 3rd base but thinks he hit a triple. If you wanted a real business guy, you should have nominated Herman Cain. He is a guy that started at the bottom and clawed his way up the corporate ladder. Romney was given ever advantage for his entire life and handed a ton of cash. 70% of the people in American could have done what he did if they were handed his resources.

K. McDonald,

And I will never support a president that tries to win over voters by bribing them with other people's money.

K Mac.....would you NEVER vote for a President who refuses to disclose ANYof his records regarding his past? Would you NEVER re-elect a President who has failed to support American lives after a terroristic attack? How about NEVER voting for a President who circumvents the US Constitution, and has his highest attorney being investigated for criminal activity? Once you take these points into consideration, what a Presidential candidate does with their personal wealth becomes mute, as does abortion (it has been supported and rejected by the last 8 Presidents, yet Roe v Wade remains), gay rights, etc. in the end, these fluff points make no difference. Focussing on economy and national security, including border laws are important. Who someone sleeps with, what their favorite color is, and who makes more money become meaningless when caskets keep coming home, and the family unit becomes destroyed due to leadership failing to address important issues, while rubbing elbows with the millionaires they verbally attack, yet find more time for rather than address international unrest. stop following the shiny object and focus on important points that may change the freedoms we enjoy today, including writing on the Patch!

Yeah, Obama is showing how DISHONEST he is with this nonsense about how our ambassador was TORTURED and Murdered. And a border agent was murdered with Fast and Furious that Obama Admin. is hiding the truth.

Nixon lost his presidency for not telling the American people the truth, yet no one died.

Ha! you really should stop reading fantasy.

Obama and Biden have actually laid out their plan in detail. Increase the tax rate on anyone making over 250K a year, close some loopholes on investment earnings, make the "Bush tax cuts" permanent for those making under 250K a year and stream line federal spending. They also have published the numbers to show how the "math" works. Romney/Ryan haven't geiven a single detail of their plan other then to vaguely say they will "lower taxes and cut the debt". Again, Independent experts have already stated we can't decrease the debt without increasing revenue (ie. taxes). The only question at this point is who should pay? The 1% or the rest of us.

Richard H.,

How about a little self respect! How about you all support Clinton Era tax rates? It disgusts me to think that people are so willing to vote for a man because he promises to increase taxes on anyone making more than them. And it isn't 99%. Dems are trying to bribe 97% buy saying vote for us and we will make the top 3% pay more! Why be so bashful with your bribes. Why not go after the top 25% or the top 40%?

Cut spending by 1.5 Trillion per year as a start and then even I will consider paying more - and I am nowhere near the top 3%!

James, you are a brainwashed chimp. We both know you don't make any where near 250K a year and therefore wouldn't be asked to pay an extra dime under the Obama plan. In fact, I'll be you are one of the people that gets a return at the end of the year. The fact that you have been brainwashed to protect the rich or your own interest is sad.

Richard H.,

I stated that I am nowhere near the top 3%, but you apparently have trouble reading details. And although I would not be asked to pay more, I have self respect. You can't bribe me with other people's money!

You can call people names too! I am impressed. Typical liberal.

Richard - if you REALLY want to know Obama's plan, all you need to do is READ THE ACA. In it, he restructures this country. He taxes EVERYONE ove 133% of povert, or $48,000 household income. He taxes insurance companies into oblivion, he taxes tanning salons, he limits YOUR capacity to offset taxed income to cover health concerns, including those with special needs, he limits what choice you make in selecting healthcare coverage by taxing you if you want the best for your family, he taxes you when you sell your home and he taxes you if you invest in this country and actually show a profit......AND to boot, the CBO states that even with all of these taxes, Obamacare will be bankrupt in 18 months, suggesting MORE TAXATION is coming. Finally, based upon what your eyes tell you, do you think the wealthy are suffering under this President more than the middle class or the poor? I have yet to hear of a millionaire declare bankruptcy.....but I see a lot of middle class and poor people hurting.....rather than use your ears and LISTENING to this guy's rhetoric!

I heard an independent expert also say this once:

"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury.
From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse over loose fiscal policy."

James, I laid out specific FACTS about the purposed Obama plan. How about you do the same regarding your guy's plan. Explain to us ignorant 47%ers what you guy is actually going to do. Otherwise you are just another "anyone but Obama" moron who can't stand seeing a man of color in the White House.

Bring some facts or admit the truth about why you support a clown like Romney!

James, that only really follows if we're assuming the default state of humanity is short-sighted and selfish, and that the only satisfaction we can get out of government is in the form of personal financial gain. Democracy has gotten to where it is by rejecting those former traits, and in finding satisfaction in government works that benefit the electorate widely.

Richard H.

Another typical liberal claim. Now I am a racist. It's a good thing you don't post under your real name. Else, I suspect someone could take real offense to those kinds of accusations and do something about it.

Morgan King,

Thanks for a thoughtful response. See if you can train your liberal brethren to do the same. I do disagree with you though. This "democracy" cannot survive what we are currently putting it through - fiscally. And there are not enough rich to even come close to doing so.

I still say to those that do not want to cut spending before tapping the rich for more money: stand up for going back to Clinton Era tax rates. That would take some guts, but the only way to propagate democrats being elected is to bribe voters with money from the "rich".

I agree - there's many areas we should reduce spending in, I think we'd probably disagree that it shouldn't be from social services, though. I'll be thrilled if we can continue to scale back armed forces abroad, and pulling corporate monies from lobbyists and PACs would certainly lead to a broad reduction in 'pork barrel' projects across the country. Keeping American wages (of all levels) circulating in our economy would also be a huge step towards economic recovery. If we can wean ourselves off cheap foreign labor (I'd suggest gradual annual increases in tariffs on imported goods), use the tax code to encourage the wealthiest to invest in American manufacturing, and penalize off-shore banking, we could do a great deal of good without raising taxes across a specific income level. Or, at least, that seems like a place to start working towards something that resembles bipartisan compromise.

Richard - LISTEN TO YOURSELF. "the proposed plan". He has been the President for 4 years, and NOTHING has been accomplished. STOP listening to the campaigner, and start LOOKING at what he hasn't accomplished! as THE PRESIDENT!!! 2009-10, he had both Senate and House, and the best he could do is develop an unsustainable ACA that was rammed down our throats, destined for failure. He has FAILED regarding Gitmo, FAILED regarding Muslim relations, FAILED regarding securing our borders, FAILED regarding government transparency, FAILED regarding economy, FAILED regarding reaching across the aisle.........what he says DURING the campaign has NOTHING to do with what he actually does. Put away your "blocked by congress", and "Bush". This guy has REMIXED Clinton and Reagan into his own reality.....kinda like creating a past, but making it unavailable. Try Factscheck regarding Harvard, Columbia and trips abroad to countries we weren't allowed. Let's see Factcheck verify that stuff....or is that simply unimportant when selecting a President too?

So did you blame Bush for the crash during his last 2 years? What about for the fact that he funded not one but two wars "off the books" which lead to our national debt?

Again, you didn't tell me one thing Romney would do to decrease unemployment, the debt, or taxes. All you did was bash Obama. What is YOUR guy going to do different?

Another poster that can call people names...

Excellent points Andrew. Exactly why the Libertarian party is gaining members faster than any other party. Unfortunately they have been actively shut out of the election process (by who?). Candidate Gary Johnson has been denied the chance to be included in the debates this week, and has fought legal battles just to be on the BALLOT in several states - including Pennsylvania!! This election is like a Twilight Zone episode.

Yikes, I have been involved with the Libertarian Party since 1979 (ran for local office in '80), met Ed Clarke (great guy and even better communicator than Reagan) and I have been hearing every election cycle that it is the fastest growing party. But if that were the case we would have no problem electing people. While I still consider myself a libertarian I understand that there is a problem between the LP and the voters. Yes, the party is blocked out of debates, any media coverage given is usually showing a whacky side. It is not fair but that is life. I will vote Romney/Ryan because they represent the closest thing to my beliefs and I really do fear what this democrat party has turned into - yea, that's voting for the lesser of two evils etc. etc. etc. But on the other hand, wisdom does come with age (for most).

Sharpie - I am for real, I don't feel ashamed, and I'm not going to apologize. I noticed, "Sharpie", that you did not offer any rebuttal to the points I made. Why? You accused me of having a "callous cold hardened careless outlook", I was merely providing facts. Do you think the anguish and loss caused by the events of 9/11 was somehow greater than the sum of the anguish and loss caused in separate accidents nationwide every single month in this country? Is it your belief that because the deaths of 9/11 were the result of what Washington has coined "terrorism", that those deaths are somehow more meaningful than the deaths of those killed in head on collisions with drunk or texting drivers?

You wrote, "Some of us just want to be separated from this insufferable mentality, colder and apathetic, more heartless every day ." Do you think that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, and Obama have than mentality? They sent thousands of our finest to die and be maimed both physically and psychologically. For what? What of the bankers, ratings agency executives, and mortgage industry "professionals" whose greed driven frauds plunged the entire planet into fiscal chaos? Are you worried about their mentality? The TSA minions who lift the frail elderly out of their wheelchairs to pat them down for explosives and nail clippers, is that what you're referring to?

You seem to refer to some cosmic retribution, I appreciate your concern and I look forward to your response.

Correction - "It will not help to COMPARE crimes to accidents." They are not the same.

Sharpie - I agree that 9/11 was intentional whereas accidents, by definition, are not. I certainly did not mean to trivialize 9/11 by asking, “So why all the fuss over 9/11?”. I feel that, like accidents, 9/11 did not have to happen. In that sense, the distinction of intent is not there, at least not with the alleged hijackers.

This timely blurb is from today’s www.philly.com: “A man who told Delaware State Police that he swerved to avoid an elephant, crashed his car on I-295 in Delaware. He was arrested and charged with his seventh DUI offense.” If the federal government were really seriously concerned about highway mayhem, do you think it would be possible to be charged a seventh time for DUI?

Yet, after 9/11, hundreds of billions of dollars were spent to beef up “national security” by creating who knows how many acronym organizations whose actions have profoundly impacted our Constitutional rights. Hundreds of billions of dollars have been spent on wars resulting in the needless deaths of thousands of our young men and women and who knows how many foreign civilians. And yet Al-Queda continues to grow in their ranks across the globe. Washington mouthpieces say that Al-Queda membership is up because they hate us for our freedoms (which are gradually disappearing). I think that CIA drones killing innocent wedding goers may have something to do with it.

Sharpie - Maybe we are not as disparate in our views as it might seem. I certainly agree with what you have written in your latest comment. I feel as you do that time is running out and that things need to be addressed and acted upon to stall and hopefully stop the decay of civilization and certainly what man has wrought upon Mother Earth. That’s why I try to call attention to things which I believe are the causes of the problems. As you do.

"Only the universe knows the final count of deaths related to 9/11 crimes. Can they easily be covered over, no? Can those who had a hand try and repair their world in some way, maybe? Can they do something to stop damaging themselves, their people, and their planet? Probably. Time is running out to bring hope and healing for a better world. We should all be trying esp. those of us who can, most especially those that can".
Correction - Can they easily be covered over? Maybe not. But, love covers a multitude of wrongs. A single right act cancels many wrongs. All that matters is who we are in the end. Did we do the right thing in the end? Did we chose to transform ourselves and our world in the end? Did we lay down death, and begin to truly live. All that matters is who we are in the end.

Love covers a multitude of wrongs. A single right act cancels many wrongs. All that matters is who we are in the end. Did we do the right thing in the end? Did we chose to transform ourselves and our world in the end? Did we lay down death, and begin to truly live. All that matters is who we are in the end.