Paul Ryan has the same ability to avoid answering questions and manipulating facts just like our own representative Warren Kampf.
http://www.therealwarrenkampf.com/

Couldn't agree more! I found Ryan insightful. An encouraging to business people everywhere, something that has been lacking these 3 plus years

The stock market closed at 7949 the day Obama took office. Today: 13328. Almost 70%! Yes....things are horrible...the corporations are not making any money so they won't hire so we need to give them more.
Medicare is already privatized....it's called Medicare Advantage and good luck finding a doctor who accepts it because the insurance companies delay or deny claims...doctors have mortgage payments to make too and are under no obligation to accept MA. ..so how does it create competition and benefit seniors if doctors don't want to accept it...its why Obamacare is trying to phase it out but the GOP acts as if seniors don't already have a choice between government or private Medicare....but don't take my word for it...don't take msnbc or fox news' word for it...check your facts before you jump on the Bain/Voucher bandwagon.

Ryan felt empty, while V. Pres. Biden gave a soild feeling.

Remember for any election: it's easier to attack the incumbent, because they've been there performing. Other candidates can criticize, but weren't in the incumbent's shoes. Ryan and Romney are REALLY full of lies. Presidentially, I've found 1 lie on the other side, and there may be more, however, the Republicans and they're mega-pac, etc, supporters are outright liars & criminals. (Here in PA, kicked disabled people off of meager public assistance checks, but spent millions of taxpayer dollars - millions - to get this voter I. D. think, as they did w/ Fla. funds !

679,400 sq miles (1,760,000 km²)Libya, Area
71,500 sq miles (185,200 km²)Syria, Area
oops Joe your wrong again

HIS facts are NOT facts.

Tanya...you hit it out of the park

Tanya is right on key, lets hope the rest of America that believed his crap in 2008 isn't as stupid again

I agree!!! Facts DO matter!!! Facial expressions and demeanor trump sound, accurate facts!! President Obama also presented accurate facts despite his refusal to join in with Gov. Romney's sarcasm and constanat interruption etc...I do not support the Romney/Ryan ticket and it has NOTHING to do with their presentation! This country needs to follow the issues accurately and educate themselves so they do not get drawn in to all that superficial nonsense regarding demeanor, expression etc!! If Jack the Riper smiled, said please and thank you and so on....would you vote for HIM!!!???

Biden facts? are you kidding, he followed the liberal line of shouting untruths to create facts. Check his facts on Libya, medicare & obama care etc. Biden even made a clumsy try at plagerizing Loyd Bensons your no Kennedy line, but Joe has a history of plagerizing.

Joe is arrogant and condensing, just like his boss. He is an embarrassment to his office.

Yes you libs love to use statements of "facts matter" and "fact-checking" without mentioning what those "facts" might be? The fact is: our economy is in such a deplorable state, BECAUSE of the failed policies of Obama. You are either a partisan wonk or a moron; take your pick!

@Responsible Citizen....Who is Jack the Riper? Never heard of him. Once again, accuracy counts....unless you're a Lib.

The only "facts" Biden had was data from about 8 years ago. He didn't have much to offer except the side show smirks and behaviors consistent with awkward moments and no answers. Thanks for reminding us that facts matter.

Joe Biden won. I will never understand people who vote against their best interest. The extreme right has taken over the republican party. You are being lead to your own enslavement and your blind to seeing it. In one breath your yelling less government and the next your taking rights away from the American people. You criticized the President in being to reserved in the last Presidential debate and then in the Vice Presidential debate you saying Joe was too aggressive. Joe is being Joe. He is not a shapeshifter or a sales man like Mitt and Paul. I love Pennsylvania citizens we are straight forward. We don't tell you what you want to hear, we tell you like it is. Paul Ryan never gave a straight answer on anything. Joe corrected him on many of the subject including telling Paul and the moderator You are wrong,I was there at the table (literally at the table) when it happened. We might think we know what is going on in the White House but these are the people who are there working in our best interest. Vote Obama! If you vote Mitt you will lose funding for birth control (but it's ok to pay for Viagra). They will cut the funding for college funds. Your medicare will be changed to a voucher system and your out of luck if you can't make up the difference. All so they can keep the loop holes and tax cuts for the rich. We might not have the recovery as fast as we want but it is making a slow steady progress and in the end we will all recover not just the rich. VOTE

@Tonya....a few of your (used correctly here, wherein you used "your" incorrectly) quotes:
"The extreme right....and the next your taking rights away from the American people." What rights are the extreme right taking away? Be specific as to "rights."

"I love Pennsylvania citizens we are straight forward. We don't tell you what you want to hear, we tell you like it is." Seriously? Are you the spokesperson for Pennsylvanians?

"Paul Ryan never gave a straight answer on anything. " Never? Please prove that by explaining every statement he made and what the correction should be.

That's enough for now, although I'm very anxious to read your reply!

Well for one thing, CharlieD, those who must behave as spellchecker and grammar nanny usually have no other argument for their side.

NE12Ukid: I have not seen tonya's reply yet, do you think she is still composing or in her room crying and cussing because you are going to make her think about the facts and that new realm to her, called reality.

So was Romney, but he had energy and was forceful.

Interestingly enough, Obama attended the moderator's wedding like 20 years ago...

It was Biden-Martha against Ryan. Couldn't you tell? Still Ryan won. Facts and manners mater. Biden was a laughing, smirking jack@ass trying to cover for Obama's failures.

Well, the Obama's were a guest at here wedding and for that alone she should've recused herself. And Tanya; do you really think the Federal Governement should be in the business of funding birth control ? We're BORROWING $5 billion a day and you want your birth control covered ? I suppose you'd also make the argument that since it's in the interest of healthcare, you'd like everyone to get 3 square meals a day and a laptop for your kids, so they don't fall behind educationally ? We're on the brink of becoming the next Greece or Spain (where there'll be no choice but to impose draconian cuts) and all you can think of is your birth control ? Wake up, lady !

"MAN.....was SHE" ???? Make up your mind !

I don;t think Ryan was smirking..I think he just has a goofy smile...I like him but he does have a deer in the headlights look about him. His knowledge of the issues dispels that look but if the sound is off he looks like Bambi looking into a Mack truck.

Totally correct!!! BOTH candidates did it and Romney as well with his arrogance at the presidential debate! As I said...it's the FACTS that matter no matter WHO you are supporting!! This election is far too serious as our many valuable services, women's rights, education, etc...stand to be taken away!! DON'T VOTE AGAINST YOUSELVES because of demeanor, candidates' smirks and so on.....Educate yourselves on the issues otherwise it will be too late!!!

Ryan has no substance

@Responsible Citizen.....shouldn't you change your name to Fear Monger?? It will be too late?? For what, saving our country from becoming the next Greece?

He had no facts and never answered the questions in any specific manner-- Ryan just said the same crap over and over. There is a reason this ticket avoids specifics-- because they would cost them any chance of winning.

@Kate....Ryan had NO facts? Aren't you being ridiculous and expressing emotion versus reality? Lay off the Kool Aid for awhile.

You're nuts! Biden came to a battle of wits totally unarmed.

praying for you Tim...there is just nothing I can say to convince you that you are wrong...so prayer is the only option here with you.

Tim you are a very stupid person, please get off the computer and see a rage specialist....oh wait that's not covered under Obamacare..Forget I mentioned it...just put your head back in the sand.

PRAYER!!!!! I disagree!!!! A thinking brain is what God gave us to utilize to it's fullest!!!!

You must hve been looking at a different debate Joes lies were blatent and stupid he didn't even bother to pay attention when the Administration admitted they knew the libya attack was terrorist based not the movie fairy tale they tried to foist on the public. And joe lied about the money removed from medicare to fund Obama care. Joe thinks by playing the part of a clown he can get away with being loosey goosey on the issues.

BIDENS dentist won,Bidens is an arrogant pinhead and smart ass

@Responsible Citizen....as a Lib Dem how dare you use the word God. The Lib Dem's will disavow all knowledge of you.

Bill, you could not be more right. I wish Paul Ryan would have controlled Raddatz more, he was just too polite.

Name calling is a sure fire indication of a loser.

Exactly! And this man is one step away from being the president???? Frightening!

I agree totally. For a VP to act like he did was despicable. He knew Romney took control of the debate so he wanted to control this one. Only he did it rudely. The smirks and the laughing were above ridiculous. Ryan held his own, didn't look lost like Obama did. Neither won. For a person not into politics who tuned it would probably see Ryan as the adult in the room, much more focused and likeable.

Biden is what I assume the smarter of the two...one of the independent undecided voters in CNNs focus group called him a buffoon. How fitting for this current vp. Makes you go huuuummmm, how did they get elected in the first place?

He is very knowledgable and passionate

It crossed my mind several times during the debate that Biden just might be drunk.

Wow, you are really grasping for straws now, Charlie!
Of course Joe Biden was smiling, as was I. Laughing and smiling at the crap Ryan was feeding his people was all you could do to keep from crying!

Those facial expressions or ticks were simply political theater that had been well rehearsed and constructed to illicit a response. It was disturbing and distracting. It reminded me of a teenager laughing in time out while their mother scolds them.

This debate was not won by neither. It came down to who was more likeable, Ryan gets it. You don't seem to understand. Biden needed to appeal to independents, he did not, with his hands and arms flailing everywhere,smirking, laughing,rolling his eyes .....sure he made the left happy. But he already had the left vote.

Remember that Biden is a long time politician and should have enough wisdom to know how to control his outward appearance. Can you imagine if he is dealing with foreign diplomats this way? Of course a persons facial expressions matter. It is called body language and it certainly does matter. Ask any teacher if their student's body language matters when they are answering a question. I would expect his reactions if he were a teenager or very young politician, but obviously he is trying to distract and hope that the weakminded just see his smirk and follow suit. There is no way that this man should still be in politics. He is a bad joke and needs to get a job elsewhere.

Amend stop it, he hit the five point plan and Raddatz kept cutting him off. She had no interest in what he said, just let Biden smirk and ramble. But I did like Biden's imitation of Mickey Rourke when he "serious".

HMM BIDEN MAD...BIDEN SMIRK....BIDEN SMASH

(Credit for that goes too Dana Loesch)

WHY does anyone need to appeal to "independents"??!! If an individual does not have an educated opinion at these crucial times in our country, then there is something absolutely wrong!! One can only deduce, independents have been asleep at the wheel OR simply late and procrastinating on their homework assignments and responsibilities as citizens!! It's appalling so much attention is placed on these "tardy" uninformed individuals!!!

I'm with ya Maria....I see the win coming, we just have to hang on for the ride!

Remember to bring Tom Smith with Mitt. Romney cannot get much done with DIngy Harry at the helm of the Senate.

SNL will not find anything funny about this except Paul Ryan's ears. They may make fun of it after the election, when Obama is defeated and has failed his socialist friends. C'mon Biden has given us so many laughs after over the years. Here's just a few:

- On Aug. 14, 2012, Vice President Joe Biden tells a Virginia crowd, Romney's plan would "put y'all back in chains."
-- On April 26, 2012, Biden tried to riff on President Theodore Roosevelt's famous quote “Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far," by saying, "I promise you, the president has a big stick. I promise you."
-- On Aug. 1, 2011, as a follow up to Democratic Rep. Mike Doyle suggesting that dealing with Tea Party and fiscal conservatives was like negotiating with terrorists, Biden reportedly piled on by saying, “They have acted like terrorists.”
-- On June 26, 2010, Biden called the manager of a custard shop outside of Milwaukee a "smartass" after the man asked him to lower taxes. Biden made the comment after the Kopp’s Frozen Custard shop manager told him that his dessert would be on the house if he lowered taxes. "Why don’t you say something nice instead of being a smartass all the time?" Biden said a few minutes later.
-- On July 16, 2009, an open microphone caught Biden saying, "This is a big f---ing deal" to President Obama during a Washington signing ceremony for the president's health care law.

Choosing appearance over substance is how your guy got elected in 08! Your comment implies that everyone who voted for the O/B ticket in 08 (and will again in 12) are sophomoric (read comment on the view "eye candy")

Scott is right! Hope and change....but no substance! The expressions of biden wrre over the top and distracting. His chuckling ino the mic, talking over ryan, eye rolling, etc..was so childish it was hard NOT to watch! As far as substance??? Biden is a clueless politiician who was told to steal the show. He stole it....but everyone was laughing at him. He should be in used car sales.....trust him, he's joe.....ha!

How could Ryan have answered any question with "substance" when Martha constantly cut him off mid statement and threw another question at him? It was obvious that she didn't want Ryan to make his point and explain the rationale behind it. Martha- Biden's BFF? No doubt in my mind. I always liked Biden but he came off last night as Bobo the clown boy! The condescending "my friend" used repeatedly when addressing Ryan was ignorant and dismissive. Hopefully this is not the Biden we send to represent the USA with foreign dignitaries; or perhaps it is. That might explain our ineffective foreign policy. I would hope that any individual representing the USA would be well-mannered and respectful of others even when they may not agree. Is that philosophy sophomoric? Shouldn't we expect a "presidential" demeanor from those who represent this country? I think we have had enough of the "Yo, Friend" for the last four years. Biden was so loud, obnoxious, and unfocused that it became difficult for me to focus on the point he was trying to make! I could not say either man was a clear winner on substance. However, Ryan was on the mark in allowing Biden to continue making a fool of himself.

Amend THe left wing moderator interupted Ryan while he was giving specifics, The left knows Ryan is smart and want to shut him up.

@Amend....please give us the Obama/Biden specifics. They've had almost 4 years and zero specifics, other than Obama looking into the camera on every issue and saying he won't sleep until (fill in the specific issue) is resolved.

@Charlie D.- considering Obama is president, his policies are his specifics. somehow those supporting Romney seem to overlook the progress that has been made since 2008. Unemployment is inching under 8%, foreclosures are a 4 year low, the Dow is over 13,000 after falling to just over 6,500. The stimulus was specific, as was his jobs bill, as is the Affordable Care Act, he intends to let the Bush era tax cuts expire on those making over $250,000, he's planning on offering tax cuts to domestic manufacturing, he's been a supporter of expanding domestic energy production...that's just what comes to mind. what specifics have Romney/Ryan offered? what loopholes and deductions are they intending on doing away with? how do they plan on replacing the revenue lost from their 20% tax cut proposal?

Wow - I never considered that Martha was doing her job in interrupting Ryan every time he attempted to clarify his position. Had Ryan been given the opportunity to actually substantiate the specifics of his points, Biden would have come across in the debate as an even bigger moron! Though are there degrees of "moron"?

You are obviously a liberal!

No Paul, Wallst is obviously ignorant.

I guess you liked the creepy grin? His hollywood connections probably got him the Jokers paint job for his face.

@Wallst....No doubt Joe hit the bar before the debate. He got hammered at the bar and then again by Ryan at the debate.

He showed up on time.

and these are the voters that elected the current Moron to begin with, this is the reason those with brains need to get out and vote

You can't because Raddatz kept cutting him off. Not listening then...asking another slanted question. I have read the plan..it is solid.. Stoip with this stupid mantra...it does not hold water. The specific plans are out there. Hell here is the plan:

Mitt Romney’s Plan for a Stronger Middle Class is a five-part proposal for turning around the economy and delivering more jobs and more take-home pay for American families.
Part one of Mitt’s plan is to achieve energy independence on this continent by 2020. America is blessed with extraordinary natural resources, and developing them will create millions of good jobs – not only in the energy industry, but also in industries like manufacturing that will benefit from more energy at lower prices. America’s economy will boom when the billions of dollars we send overseas for our oil are kept here at home instead.

Part two of the plan is trade that works for America. Mitt believes that trade can offer enormous opportunities for American businesses and workers, but only if they are given a level playing field on which they can compete and win. That is why he will work to open new markets for American goods and services, while also confronting nations like China that cheat on trade and steal American jobs.
Part three is to provide Americans with the skills to succeed through better public schools, better access to higher education, and better retraining programs that help to match unemployed workers with real-world job opportunities.

Part four is to cut the deficit, reducing the size of government and getting the national debt under control so that America remains a place where businesses want to open up shop and hire.

Finally, part five of Mitt’s plan is to champion small business. Small businesses are the engine of job creation in this country, but they will struggle to succeed if taxes and regulations are too burdensome or if a government in Washington does its best to stifle them. Mitt will pursue comprehensive tax reform that lowers tax rates for all Americans, and he will cut back on the red tape that drives up costs and discourages hiring.

Joe made sure you did not hear them with his goof ball antics and interuptions. The choice of moderator did not help Ryan to give the fats since She also interupted.

Martha never allowed Ryan to make a point and explain it! She was a joke of a moderator! Biden was still lying about the "spontaneous" uprising in Benghazi and attempting to blame the Intelligence Service for the administration's failure to tell the truth. This administration has been nothing more than four years of "not my fault". They take responsibility for nothing - most of all their inadequacies.

It is obvious to all that Obama did not fullfill his promise to fix the economy. By Obamas own words we are traveling in the wrong direction.

@Amend....give it a rest.

@Reaganite- 5 bullet points are hardly a plan. They are more accurately described as goals that they've proposed out without offering specifics as to how they might accomplish those goals. A real plan has strategies and tactics attached to it that assess real obstacles and outline achievable outcomes.

@Charlie D- for someone who's posted as many times as you have, without offering much in the way of dialogue, you might want to listen to your own advice. just sayin'.

Amend.. This was just the introduction I was limited by the threads...There a is an 7-page PDF for Romney's job plans that his been up since July here is the link.

http://www.mittromney.com/jobsplan click "full plan"

And as for not talking about the specifics, it makes for boring soundbites.. If anyone really wants to know, the stuff has been there for months, they can find it. All the libtards are doing is trying to keep the conversation away from the results of Obama's four year curtain call. The Celebrity in Chief is wearing no clothes.

@Reaganite- i tried to read the whole plan, but i got an "access denied" page instead. Could be the older PC i'm on. Anywho, i disagree with your observation that specifics make for boring soundbites. there's plenty of time in a debate to begin outlining some aspects of their specific plan, especially when they are asked repeatedly as to how they intend to make up the loss in revenue from their proposed 20% tax cut. And if there is indeed info out there regarding those specifics, why isn't it being reported on anywhere?

Republicans are embarrassed for you.

Wow, what you call control...I call ridiculous. Sounds like we should just have 2 countries and you can have Obummer for your pres.

EMBARRASSED!

How much is your union going to fine you if you don;t kiss a** to Obama

@Frank....you can have California, the entire LGTB community, Hollywood, the IRS, the EPA, the Dept of Education, Nat'l Public Broadcasting, Planned Parenthood, Obamacare and everyone on Welfare. We'll take the U.S. military that you despise, the Border Patrol, the Coast Guard, the Constitution that you enjoy trampling, those that appreciate & respect religious freedom and everyone that prefers having "In God We Trust" on our currency. We can split up the rest later.

Joe Biden is the liar! He in fact voted for the wars he accussed Ryan of voting for. He lied about the Catholice church not being forced to go against their teachings on birth control and abortion. He lied about the terrorist attack in Libya.Obama is dragging his feet hoping the truth will not come out until after the election. Biden has the nerve to say "trust me". My dog could do a better job in the whitehouse and she is also pro life and anti dictatorship!

Biden had his two shots before the debate explaining why he was so giddy.

I guess it would have been better if he would have drank Jack Daniels before the debate, like Biden did.

Yeah it's like Biden was in a bar discussion, drunk with no booze on the table...What a buffoon

s brown you obviously have a medical issue if you are voting for Obama!

Please post on here the day after the election big jon, can't wait to see you run away with your tail between your legs

WOW!!! Such BIGOTRY and HATRED!!

Lower Mac Resident...My bad you were right, I was reading too fast. Sorry

On Ryans side, it's pretty hard to give an answer when you have a heckling clown blabbering away and not letting you speak, and then you have the heckling clowns partner, the moderator, helping him on

@Richard Beckler...."Ryan had no facts and didn't give one straight forward answer" Really, not 1? Extreme Lib Dem's exaggerating again, just like your leaders.

Richard -
And what parallel universe were YOU inhabiting during this debate? The Galaxy of Regressive Hyperbole?

Yeah...that's what happened...knucklehead

Amend you are not an independent...I have commented on your posts. You are a card carrying liberal You pretend your mind is open..but then you speak. Keep trying to soothe your worried soul, the momentum continues to shift for Romney...because President Obama has failed at everything.

Amend I do not believe you are not a liberal. Do you believe Biden the interupter or the liberal moderator gave Ryan a chance to put forth the facts? This was not a debate but an opportunity for the left to gang up on Ryan. Fortunatly Joe came across as a babling grining idiot and won the debate for Ryan. And yes there are winners and losers.

@Reaganite & Charles- I don't live for your approval as to how I define myself and my political leanings. try bullying someone else.

By the way - Obama did not "kill Osama Bin Laden". SEAL team 6 did! If you follow the details of the incident, the team had waited for the command from Obama until the last minute before having to scrap the mission. Our "commander in chief" was sitting in a cushy room while the seal team risked their lives for the mission. Obama killed Bin Laden? Nice try with that fairy tale.

More like delusional...Oh there's Bush....what about Halliburton? You are a tool.

Who the left has an issue Liar liar pants on fire. The new Obama slogan.

Right tea boy that had nothing to do with leadership. Seal team 6 was just kind of doing thier own thing that day right? How many years was this delayed becasue all of our intelligence resources were running around looking for WMD's and Saddam Hussein's 2 moron sons? Get a clue!

You want to talk about lies!!.What is Obama covering up regarding Fast and Furious. what is he covering up regarding the terrorist attack in Libya where four americans were killed. Obama insisted on blaming the attack on a video when in fact he knew it was a lie. Obama is a lying communist who wants even more control. You won't be able to use the restroom without permission if Obama gets elected for another four years!!!

Bob if you believe acting like a grinning gooball coupled with the left wing moderator won the debate you are in la la land.

If being a babbling idiot is a "strong presence" then you are right. Biden had that presence hands down!

Another comment based on BIGOTRY and HATRED!!!

All the way to the unemployment line

To Lisa Loeb Biden will lead you to the welfare office!

Don't waste a vote.

The vice president is not appointed he is elected..If this is the Libertarian strategy ...you guys better have meeting
U.S Constitution-Amendment 12--Passed in 1803

Everyone handles liars differently. Obama took a non-confrontational approach, Biden not so much.
The debate went pretty much as expected; Biden the winner, Ryan avoiding answering any questions.

Naah Ryan did Okay...Obama just got freakin' beat

The difference between Biden and Romney? Romney was focused, assertive, knowledgeable, and always respectful to BO. Biden was unfocused, rude, obnoxious, and condescending to his"friend". Ryan made a mistake in allowing the "friend" routine to not be addressed. (Unless Biden would have appreciated being referred to as "Pal")

What does Obama have to offer? I know a government controlled EVERYTHING!!!

Jim..that sounds about right

Keep trying Michelle lipstick on a pig is still a pig.

Guess you like paying for welfare. Keep up the good work!

Anonymous, we all pay for welfare.

Paying for welfare....she's getting welfare...maybe she will call us on her Obamaphone...what did that cost another billion.

Numbers don't lie but biden does!
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/10/12/Fact-Check-Top-Ten-Worst-Lies-by-Joe-Biden-in-VP-Debate

Joltin Joe is a plageriser and a grinning idiot. His Kennedy remark was clumsy and stupid. Bensten would turn over in his grave if he heard it.

You may not be black, Mexican, or poor but I doubt the informed educated part. Obama is a Marxist who wants to be re elected so he can finish ruining the country.

I heard a lot of reporters say the same thing. "He would give you the shirt off his back." But last night, that was simply unpleasant too watch.

Per the logo, this is the official stance of the "Patch" organization?

Excellent point nurzDonna!!! I am in 100% agreement with you!! It is accurate facts and substance that count!! This election is far too important to squander a vote due to frivolous, superficial reasons!! These candidates are ALL coached on how to present themselves prior to these debates. Unfortunately the emphasis place on their emeanor and presentation DOES work is evidenced by all the posters here who are unable to differentiate between fact and fiction...it is up to the intelligence and critical thinking of our citizens to not become affected by those distractions!!

He sure did not dance around baby's right to life. Remember...Constitutution

nurzDonna I hope to God you aren't a nurse. Do you also believe in partial birth abortion. Does the unborn child have any rights? The innocent child should not be punished for a woman that has no morals and wants to sleep with every thing that wears pants. The problem is not lack of womens rights it is lack of morals!

James, how do the rich get wealthier? Really? Answer that question. They get wealthier not by themselves, but with others working for them. Get it? They hire, build, support, invest in others, etc. It is what moves us along. Free enterprise. You could become rich. Make something, build something, design something, take a risk. For those of us that work for a smaller business, I hope my owner gets richer. If he doesn't, the 85 people that work for him will be out of a job!

Well I saw Grumpy Old Man 4: Can't stand them Whippersnappers. SO I guess you got what you wanted and I got what I wanted.

Need help with the moving cost?

Obama had a majority in Congress & Senate for two years. They never passed a budget or any other Bill that would have helped the Country. The major Bill passed was the Affordable Health Care Bill which was voted on by the majority without many of them taking the time to read it. The financial disaster can also be blamed on Clinton with the affordable housing Frank put in w/Fannie Mae-Freddie Mac, allowing those that could not afford a house to buy it anyway on the taxpayers dime. The wars added to that financial problem when Bush was in office, but think about 9/11, it wasn't put together in the 9 months after Bush took office, it took over 3 years (according to Al Queda informants) which then goes back to Clinton. We can all agree to disagree and vote for whom we wish, but the name calling, rudeness, etc., will hopefully be gone after this election. The division in this Country right now is sad and November 6th cannot come fast enough for me (a life-long Democrat). If Romney is elected, good luck in Canada & with their health care.

Obama and Dems had control of Congress and the Senate for 2 years and did nothing but ram thru that disaster, "Obamacare". Blaming those evil Repubs for everything fits his M.O. He blames everyone but himself for anything that goes wrong.
By the way, Obama continued the Patriot Act. Not sure what ya'll are referring to with Bush and the Dixie Chicks, but then again, everything is Bush's fault. Right? Even the financial crisis caused by forcing banks to give mortgages to those who couldn't afford them. Oh wait, if ya'll would educate yourself and do some research, ya'll would find out that it Barney Frank and the Dem's that actually did it, ignoring requests fom Bush to halt it. I guess the best way to fix the economy is to ignore the law and not pass a budget for the 4 years (oops!! Probably Bush's fault.) Enjoy Canada!!!!!!.

If Dems cared so much for the little guy, how come Philly's city unions can't get a contract?

Why don't you ask Obama why he doesn't help his bother who is living in abject poverty? Obama doesn't give a hoot about poor people. He wants to keep them dependent on the government. That is how Marxism works!!!
Don't kid yourself Obama is far from being a pauper. Get the DVR 2016 and open your eyes to the real obama!

In reality, if Dems cared about helping those less fortunate, why have Obama & Biden donated so little to charity (public record of their tax returns). If Dems cared so much about the lower class, why hasn't all the years (dating to the 60's) of 'Entitlements' helped them to become middle class instead of generations repeating the same over and over again? Why won't Dem's reform Welfare, Medicaid, Medicare? It's obvious it has not helped the majority that use it, so why not reform & actually help those that need it? Nevermind, if reforms were made, hard decisions actually utilized, the Dem's would lose their baseline voters.

The best part about being an Independent is I get to sit back and watch the Dem supporters say the Rep's are lying, and the Rep supports say the Dem's are lying.
The truth is, both sides stretch the truth to fit their arguement. In other words, they are both lying.

An incomplete list of Romney's lies:
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/mitt-romney/statements/byruling/false
Please note this does not include his changes of position on abortion this past week. While maybe not exactly a lie, it certainly does not cause me to trust him more.

Ryan of course lied about the closing of the GM plant in his hometown and of course his whoppers about running a marathon in under 3 hours.

They are definitely two peas in a pod.

MPorchik...Yes your wisdom is simply astounding. You are a coward. One side socialism...other side capitalism.. Is it really that complicated. Man Up.

Wow, I'm impressed Reaganite. Without knowing anything about me you call me a coward and say I should man up. My own personal beliefs in how Government should run fall in between both parties. I think there are some Dem ideals that are good, but don't agree with all of them, just like I think there are some Rep ideals that are good, but again I don't agree with all of them. At least I can be objective in my opinions about both sides and don't blindly follow one side or the other. If you think that makes me a coward, so be it. Your opinion of me doesn't really matter to me..

Dave Curran

Perhaps you didn't understand my request. I am not looking for proof that Romney/Ryan are liars, I am looking for proof that Obama/Biden are honest. Keep trying though.

Duncan, I apologise to not commenting on your post regarding myself (damn iPhone) after your comment, but I hope u get this.
I would suggest Obamas proof of honesty would be his take down of Osama Bin Laden. If u recall Obama took considerable heat from the right when he suggested on 1210 (Smerconish show), that he would get OBL even if he was in Pakistan. OBL is now sleeping with the fishes, after being attacked in Pakistan.
Perhaps a better way of evaluating canidates is on their dishonesty. Romney/Ryan fail that test hands down.

Mike...unfortunately you say nothing about substantial facts and substance!! This is what is so frightening about "independents" who cast their vote without understandng and awareness of the issues and facts!! No matter who one votes for...it is because of this distraction and concentration on anything BUT the issues that will hurt the rest of us and our children in this nation!

I guess, Responsible Citizen, that I just assume those Independents and undecideds are paying attention. You can lead the horse to water, but ...

Who needs specifics when you have one of these:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etch_A_Sketch

Blah blah blah Bush...Hallibuton...What about Frank and Dodd who protected the unsolvent mortgages from any investigation from the Attorney General.. That's what caused this mess..DEMOCRATS...AGAIN.

I was rooting for Ryan...and Biden got him with that one...no question

Well, first off, Ryan wasn't "begging" for money anymore than any other Congressional Rep does when it would benefit thier constituents. Ryan would have abandoned his Representative responsibility if he didn't seek such benefits once the decision is made to make them available.

One expects their Representative, regardless of their political philosophies, to do what's right for their constituents when the time comes to act. So there was nothing wrong with Ryan seeking benefits for his District once the decision was made to enact the stimulus.

Ryan did right by Wisconsin when he wrote those letters to Biden!

Why would he not ask for the money. If the goofy dems are giving other peoples money away again he might as well take some for his constituents since he could not stop the give away any way. To me the dems are the elitist jerks for thinking they know best what we should do with the money we work hard for. To me they are no better than muggers and thiefs on the streets that feel they are entitled to other peoples money.

To Mike Shortall - If Congressman Paul Ryan and fellow Congressman that voted against the stimulus, clearly did not see it as a benefit to their constituents, because they didn't vote for the stimulus bill. Therefore, non-of them should have begged or for any of that money.

What you fail to realize here or turn a blind eye to is the fact that Congressman Paul Ryan only voted no on the stimulus, for a couple of reasons: (1) - The anti-American pledge to take down a President. (2) - It provides him with the ability to make the claim that he voted against it, which satisfies the party loyalist voters.

Mr. Shortall, This is a case of Congressman Paul Ryan being against the stimulus before he was for the stimulus. This is a case of Congressman Paul Ryan, who like most all Congressman, know what the votes they have and going into a vote. That information allows them to play his political game. This is a case of Congressman Paul Ryan's hypocrisy, just like many other acts of Congress members who make political calculations.

Bottom line here is that Congressman Paul Ryan knew, as you said, that the stimulus was in the best interest of his constituency, and his no vote was political gamesmanship.

No, Ernest, you are simply trying to obfuscate the difference between being a politician and serving as a Representative of ALL the people in your constituency.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with opposing a legislative action in principle but - once the law is passed, even if over your strenuous objections - ensuring that your constituents (including those who might disagree with your philosophical opposition) benefit from the program you opposed.

If Mr Ryan was my Congressional Rep, I would be more than a little upset if he refused to seek benefits that would help the people in my District just because he opposed the measure based on HIS political beliefs. That would be a reason to vote AGAINST such a Representative the next time he ran for re-election!

There's a time for Politics and a time for Governing. Learn the difference!

Mr. Shortall - Your argument is that Congressman Paul Ryan took stimulus money to BENEFIT his constituents, exactly why the stimulus was not only necessary, but beneficial and successful. Congressman should not be casting their votes on "principle" as you say. Members of Congress should be casting their votes on what will best serve their constituents.

Clearly, Congressman Ryan knew all along that the stimulus was the right thing to do as well as necessary, otherwise he would not have taken the stimulus money.

This impart is why Congress has been failing the American people. Personal ideology and votes based on "principle" interfere with the process of governing, which is and has been destructive to America.

Congress is full of too many who behave as entitled, selfish, and immature brats who are only their for themselves, and all the privileges, of access, lucrative benefits, and a pay check, all at the expense of the average tax payer, and their votes more often than not go to the highest pocket lining bidder.

Mr. Shortall, part of governing is voting on legislation, and should never be a time for personal "principles" and/or politics. Further, Congressman Ryan taking the stimulus money to "benefit his constituents" was playing politics, only because he knew that they would not be so interested in supporting him in the future if he hadn't.

You are so wrong, Ernest!

There is no reason why a Rep or Sen's overall political philosophy on spending, deficits, the economy, or the role of National Government can not/should not be expressed when it comes to individual legislation like it did here with Ryan's vote against the stimulus.

If the only litmus test on what makes a "good bill" is whether or not it benefits a particular group, program or geographical area, then the Government would have collapsed decades ago under the weight of even more "free stuff" than we have now! That's part of the problem with the future stability of the economy, the spending of the Social Security "trust", and the ridiculous size of the debt!

If the only thing a legislator had to look at was how his people could benefit or get more "free stuff", then fiscal conservatives would NEVER win a seat in Congress. Fortunately, the electorate - for all the criticism they get - has a greater appreciation for what the real priorities should be.

Now that being said, I'll go back to my original point. There's nothing wrong with a fiscally conservative Congress member pursuing the benefits of a stimulus - once it's been approved - for his constituency even if he opposed that same bill on principle as a bad decision for the overall health of the Country.

That a bill might "benefit" someone can't be the only test. That mandate has to be funded, and its funding - and other aspects - has to make sense in the overall scheme of things.

Mr. Shortall, it is you who said the stimulus money was asked for by Congressman Ryan, to "benefit" his constituency. If you think Congressman Ryan's vote under the guise of "principle" wasn't a vote for his own self interest and for a "particular group" a.k.a. Republican's to serve their anti-American pledge to take down the United States Presidency, you are highly mistaken.

Again, this is in part why Congress is so dysfunctional. There are too many that are self serving...living off the public dole, getting "free stuff" as long as he can maintain a seat in Congress. This is something that Congressman Ryan has been doing most of his life. He benefited from "entitlements" after his fathers passing that got him through college, and outside of driving the wiener mobile, he has been a "public worker" receiving benefits and pay checks curtesy of the tax payer.

Well, Ernest, let me know when YOU find a legislative representative - from either party - that isn't a politician.

The issue is not that simple, case in point it is legal to kill a baby as it exits the Birth canal ( partial birth abortion ) but if the baby slips through and then is aborted seconds after bing born it is murder. Just remember it was not so many years ago it was legal for a man to kill his wife and or children since they were considered property. Be careful of the road you travel since it could be a slippery slope.

And let's not forget that Joe Biden actually voted to overturn Roe v Wade and also numerous times against partial birth abortions. Last evening he made the comment that he would not "Impose" his religion on others. Too bad he did not feel that way before he was V.P. and running for re-election, when he did "impose" his belief on others.

I also agree that I shall not pass judgement on others regarding abortion, religion, etc., but I do not feel that Biden's finger pointing at Ryan last evening for his stance on abortion was honest considering Biden's voting record. Hypocritical in my opinion.

Ever hear of Affirmative Action - so many "breaks"!

Who said Obama is a thug? He is a Marxist.

lol

Sorry, Bri but history tells us otherwise. JFK (a Dem) said, " A risiing tide lifts all ships". He and Ronald Reagan cut taxes across the board and the INCREASED ECONOMIC ACTIVITY (ie; "j-o-b-s"), which actually increased revenues to the federal goverment. So Obama can play class warfare, but what's really in the best interests of the lower & middle class is to get the economy moving at a 3 1/2-4/12% rate like Reagan and not the measly 1-1.5% that we've had for the last 3+ years under Obama. The Dems boast about their job creation, but if you analyze the #'s, they should be ashamed of only being able to create 140,000 jobs a month - when in the Reagan recovery it was 3-400,000+ jobs a month.

With all due respect, your comment "....certain amount of people to remain in the gutter or they won't prosper", is curious to me. Do you consider welfare a success? If so, how? Many that lived on welfare when first put in place now have their children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren still on welfare over 40 years later. I am all for a hand up but not a hand out. Just as I believe there should be term limits on all elected offices, I believe there should be time limits on the length one can be given 'entitlements'. Helping others is something all of us should do that can afford to, but that does not mean we should be taken as fools. There will always be those more fortunate or less fortunate, and it up to each of us to help others, but not be used as fools. Not everyone can be successful, i.e. drop out rate of minority students in Philadelphia Public High Schools, free education, paid for on our dime but not utilized the way it was meant to be. The majority of the drop outs will live off the system and not be successful & that is not the Republican's fault, that is the parent(s), guardian, etc.

I believe the original comment was intended to convey the fact that you lack proper punctuation in your comments. A lack of punctuation makes reading your incoherent comment much more difficult than it needs to be.

Example: The only period you used in this comment was a part of an ellipsis (three dots).

CBS poll. Biden 50%, Ryan 31 %.

Amen!!!

Thanks Beth, some people still believe in facts. Unfortunately some do not.

http://elections.americablog.com/2012/08/romney-aide-we-wont-let-our-ads-be-dictated-by-facts.html

"P.S. -- Watch for Paul to appear in the new "The Munsters" movie, spring 2013, after he loses his Congressman job."

Now that's mature ... </sarcasm>

Mike, I am not sure Ryan has the time. I heard he also has a bit part in the Mitts next movie "The Shape-Shifter". It is a shame because he really has the hairdo done for the Eddie part. :)

Obviously anyone who says Biden had no false statements is not much of a fact checker - try this on for size.
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/10/12/Fact-Check-Top-Ten-Worst-Lies-by-Joe-Biden-in-VP-Debate

As a life-long Democrat, I respectfully disagree. Some actually do their research (not on websites that are partisan towards one or the other) but research voting records, statements, etc. Some do not tow the 'Party Line' and act as sheep going to slaughter when they enter a voting booth. Hopefully those that are educated realize that both parties have good and bad about them and it is the candidate's views and history that should count when voting. It seems the 24 hour news cycle has made everyone an 'expert' on their opposition without realizing that facts are altered, statements cut out, etc. The mainstream news has also assisted in polarizing the Country during elections. If only instead of all of us debating who won or lost, the emphasis was put on we the people coming out the winners. That would be a novel idea, 'eh?

Except you can't evaluate Biden's behavior in a vacuum, David. Remember, after the first debate in which President Obama remained Presidential and decided to stay above the fray and not cite every Romney untruth (there were 27 in his 38 minutes), he was hammered without mercy by every pundit on TV and in print for being "detached", "passive" and "uneffective." And he has paid the price for those comments in the polls taken since that first debate. So Biden really had no choice - he could stay calm and cool, and risk the same reviews that the President got, or he could play the game the way the networks apparently need it played and make each Ryan lie and misstatement - 24 during 40 minutes this time - crystal clear. I'm glad he chose to handle it the way he did, though it saddens me that our leaders have to put on a show like this in order to get elected. I actually think that the debate format as it exists doesn't work anymore.What do you do when one side decides that they will simply lie their way through? Like Newt Gingrich said after debating Mitt Romney, "You can't debate someone who is dishonest, you just can't." That's the problem here, David.

Romney, Debate #1: 27 lies in 38 minutes.
Ryan, VP Debate: 24 lies in 40 minutes.
Newt Gingrich, after debating Mitt Romney: "You can't debate somebody who is dishonest, you just can't."

Anybody who's paying attention knows which side is struggling to tell the truth in the face of a neverending stream of lies, myths, and dishonesty.

Malarky. I guess you mean Misfit and Lying Ryan.

Biden was a disgrace to the office of VP similar to his boss. This debate wasn't even close as Biden was rude while Ryan showed significant patience and class. The moderator was clearly in Biden's hip pocket letting Biden interrupt at will and cutting off Ryan in the middle of his much shorter responses to the buffoon's blundering.

Patriot2....Romney was the same way last week in his debate. Another etch a sketch moment for you?

I would say that this is a misreading of the statement, that a bunch of rightwing sites are clinging to. Here is what he actually said: “And, by the way, they talk about this Great Recession if it fell out of the sky, like, ‘Oh, my goodness, where did it come from?’ It came from this man voting to put two wars on a credit card, to at the same time put a prescription drug benefit on the credit card, a trillion-dollar tax cut for the very wealthy. I was there. I voted against them. I said, ‘No, we can’t afford that.’”

As I heard it and again now read it, what Biden is talking about is compounding the war costs with the tax cuts and prescription drug benefits, which is what he voted against doing. The key part of that sentence is: "...to at the same time..." Biden certainly didn't forget that he voted for those wars and he doesn't shy away from talking about that fact. He continually denounces those votes as having been mistakes.

Shall we also not forget Biden when lecturing Ryan on the Romney/Ryan abortion stance, stated that he would not "Impose" his beliefs on others. Check his voting record, he imposed his religious beliefs about abortion on others numerous times. Of course that was before he aspired to be the President or Vice-President. Once that happened, his imposition on others regarding his beliefs suddenly disappeared.

Obama did the same with same-sex marriage. Opposed it for years and then suddenly as re-election loomed, he changed his mind. Perhaps both he and Biden had a divine intervention to change their stances or perhaps they are politicians (just as Ryan and Romney are) and they are catering to their core base of voters and saying what they think the base wants to hear. Myself, I prefer to hear the truth, the honest truth, not the political truth.

Hey Watts... you just pointed out another lie... Biden VOTED FOR BOTH WARS.

Last night, Biden said he didn't vote for them.

Just look up two posts and you can see that I just explained all of this to you. If it is still beyond your comprehension, just move on. I can't dummy it down for you any further than I already have.

Hi YO YO,Please go back and get your GED stupid is stupid in any country.Biden did not even know they did ask for help in Libya.They haven't been doing their job.Obama has not been in DC for a year except Eat &sleep. or play Golf. He talks a lot but is stupid

And the man worth $18 million, living in a mansion in DC with another million-dollar home in Chicago and yet another in Hawaii (just bought the property), yeah, he really understands the common man. Obama had 4 years and he made our country worse. He made us weaker, both domestically and abroad.

By the way, Paul Ryan grew up in a lower, Middle-class family. He certainly understands it. Obama grew up in Hawaii with a rich family supporting him, while Biden grew up rich in Delaware (he was born in Scranton and his family moved to Delaware when he was a kid, something he lied about last night).

I don't care about anyone's past Ben Miller. Stop living in the past. Ryan is a fake person. He wants to sell something to people and he will say and do anything to get it. That is why he was hired (yes, hired) by Romney. For some reason, Romney wants a salesman for a VP. That is pathetic.

You mean "Vice-President Elect Ryan", right? Oh yeah, that's in a couple weeks. Polls today show the President has dropped to only 7 states fully supporting him in today's polls and Pennsylvania isn't one of them..... pretty pathetic, since Romney hasn't run ads here in over a month.

Rmoney is a FASCIST who would destroy, not just our great country, but the middle class!

Absolutely right, Charlie. My favorite part of the debate was when he started yelling at the moderator... I just laughed to myself, picturing President Obama sitting somewhere, yelling at the tv for Joe to "SHUT UP!"

He slayed Ryan from every angle. Biden demonstrated how you handle liars. He showed the perfect amount of derision for someone who is lying to the American people and then refuted his lies with facts, openly, aggressively and with humor. That is how liars SHOULD be treated. We ALL should be laughing and rolling our eyes.

Ain't it the truth YY, everyone handles liars differently . Obama should have been more forceful with Romney . Biden had no such filter---God bless him.

You do realize that Biden was proven to be a plagiarist in his political career, right? He repeated took speeches and quotes from other people and claimed them as his own. He was also caught in college, plagiarizing his college thesis. It's all public record. THAT is the man you are praising.

You obviously have no idea when someone is hammered. That says alot about your ability to read someone. Maybe that is why you are a Romney supporter? Fake as heck. You are easily fooled, apparently.

I wish you puritans did not discover the color televisions sitting on wal-mart shelves. I am saying, if he let out a curse.. who cares? Are you going to need a trip to the emergency room or something? I would rather see a verbal brawl in debates. Not some moderated 'no cursing' crap that we see today. Reality does not have the moral filters the puritans demand. That is a good thing, btw.

Who are you referring to a puritans? I'm confused.

Romney does not care about the middle class. Also, how is he going to create jobs? Did he ever commit to a viable plan. Something that has worked in the past? Despite that, i'm not part of the whole "government needs to give me a job" mindset. You get off your butt, get to school and be more competetive in the job market. Whining that the President is doing a bad job because you don't have one is not intelligent. As far as the economy goes, no one is dying of starvation. In fact, I feel were going in a good direction with the Obama plan. Healthcare costs are ridiculous. While they make the 1% rich, they leave the middle class struggling. At least, Obama has an idea about this whereas Romney simply writes it off as a non-issue catering to that Obama haters. Government works for the people by the people. Romney does not believe that and neither do you, by the sounds of it. Obama 2012!

I believe Rmoney WILL run the country like business, and that's what scares me. The country is not a corporation. I think, in his mind, it would be all about the bottom line. People are just . . . collateral. "Corporations are people my friend".
He also lies so often, so easily, about big things, little things, how can you trust him? Does he have ANY core beliefs that he hasn't flipped on?

To your statement about the economy and jobs I would say, the Republican's are blocking jobs bills, mucking up the works to slow the economy hoping it'll get Obama out. That tells me all I need to know about the todays Republican party. Win at ANY cost. Playing with people's lives? Really? And then the brass to say Obama won't compromise . . . it's all the President's fault . . . like American's won't see what they're doing?

I can't get behind that. Obama's tried, but Repubs decided the night before the inauguration they weren't gonna play ball. I'm not voting for that, doesn't line up with my morals, and that's just for starters That's not how you earn my vote.

Just an aside, but it was sweet that, despite the Republican's most underhanded maneuvering to stall the economy, the unemployment STILL squeaked under 8%. It was very funny to see them have big tantrums over it.

The Economy is a business, yada. And it ain't going anywhere with the Democrats using it as a checking account.

Romney understands how to get the Economy back on track; and if he's successful then EVERYONE lives better, including the middle class AND the currently unemployed!

@Mike- i disagree with your assessment that the economy under the democrats isn't going anywhere, not when unemployment is inching lower, foreclosures declining and the stock market doubling since he took office. sure, you can argue that more could be done, and that the deficit needs to be addressed, but you can't say that the economy is tanking right now; especially considering where it was in 2008. to overlook all that is illogical. we're in a recovery. there's no denying that. Mitt Romney wants us to ignore that, declare the opposite, and then gamble on him that he could do it better by changing course even tho he has no specific details as to how he would accomplish that. Why should anyone vote for him in the face of that?

Jobs numbers affected mostly by part-time seasonal holiday hirings, not full-time jobs. These will disappear in early January.

The stock market had crashed to 7000-something when Obama entered The White House. Most of the "doubling" of the stack market was its recovery to levels that existed in 2008.

The President had three-plus years to pull the economy together. He has done nothing to sustain growth or to consistently add the kinds and numbers of jobs needed to expand the economy.

And don't forget, Biden's been a heartbeat away from the presidency for the last four years! Who really wants him staying there for the NEXT four?!?

He has my vote. If only so many Libertarians would stop jumping ship to vote against the guy they don't want to win. If only...

Joe Biden seemed to be intentionally keeping things on a jovial note by inserting some humor....even Ryan laughed at the Kennedy remark. Fox News and the people who are harping on his "smirking" as they call it, simply have no sense of humor.

Johnson has my vote - hooray for Pennsylvania for keeping him on the ballot!

http://horsham.patch.com/articles/libertarian-party-will-appear-on-pa-ballots

Because - those issues are all about RIGHTS and Freedom.

You are missing the point! I am saying that if people do not work, they cannot eat! Economy is failing and regardless whether you are gay or not it effects everyone. These controversial issues can be debated at anytime. they do not send you kids to college, feed your family, or pay the mortgage on your house.

Scott, dont try to talk sense. Ryan made a strong case for working with the Dems, that they would return LEADERSHIP to our government. The current administration wants to ignore what is arguably half the country and push an agenda so far left it hurts, then blame the other party for the result. That is not leadership. We will continue to be polarized by this administration and every day that passes the administration drives the wedge between us deeper and deeper. Again, lack of leadership. That is there plan. Just call everything lies, when the reality of it is a difference of opinion. We tried it his way for 4 years. The results are obvious. It is time to try something else! If we could just get the spending under control. Everyone wants to argue taxes when we need to argue cut the spending. Lets start with the "green" spending. That is a start that gets us a few billion dollars in the right direction. How about independence from the middle east by utilizing our natural resources? That will create jobs, strengthen the dollar, and help put us back on our feet. The fact is the technology can not, at this point, replace carbon based fuels. One average size waste water treatment plant can take 3-4 megawatts of electricity just to treat the influent to current standards. Solar or wind can not replace that!

Does your friend also have amnesia? Do they remember WHY they voted for Obama, after eight embarassing years with George Bush and Dick Cheney in charge? Romney and Ryan will put us right back where we started - they have the same advisors as Bush/Cheney and the same philosophy. How on Earth would anyone want to return to that????

Brunell, you have just proven my point. You have presented a hyperbolic list to justify a Monster on Maple Street line of thinking, but you present zero facts. If you know what Socialism is then you should be able to demonstrate with facts not claims as to how any policies are socialist. You might want to take a serious look at the last 30 plus years to see why the "American dream" is now just two hundred and fifty thousand.

Always LOVE the argument, "if you vote against Obama, you're a racist!"

No depth needed for that argument. Just blame "white people".

Don't ever allow yourself to be GUILTED into a vote!

Do your research on energy resources. There is a whole big world out there of options. Do some research. You don't have to dig far for better energy solutions. Our foreign policy should begin w looking around at our own country first, and becoming a people we can be proud to be.

You don't have to dig far to discover solutions, but you have to dig far to get the solution of the energy of today. That is oil, sorry to be crude (No pun intended) but the green energy technology is not practical today. Oil drives everything for the foreseeable future, that is just a fact, Drill our own and the Middle East becomes a sandbox we can avoid forever.. Sharpie...Grow the F-up.

I do not know...When Obama had the House Senate and White he told the republicans they will "have to get on the back of the bus." So we know the Dems will not work with the Republicans. If the dems want us to compromise our principles...then no.

And I as I think more about your post. The more I think it always the republicans have to "reach out". No I think the conservatives win and implement our ideas on the national stage, with little or no compromise. The national socialist agenda we have witnessed for the past few years tells me that Obama, Reid and Pelosi's ideals are not only wrong but just stupid. Socialism never works it is always bankrupt. Intentions are not equal to actions. Actions have consequences. And the Dems policies (intentions made actions) have consequenced us into the dirt..domestic and abroad.

Amen.

Yes, I am a Dem - mostly for social reasons. Obama is certainly not my messiah - I don't even understand what that means exactly. Are you implying I worship Obama? That is a pretty silly thing to say, isn't it? I'll vote for him, but I can accept if he doesn't win. Reaganite, would you be willing to work with me on a political project? Could you respect my intelligence and points of view even if you don't agree with them? Or, will you just write off everything I say as nonsense because I vote differently than you? I can tell you have well thought out opinions and research the issues that are important to you. I don't judge you or the way you think and I don't make assumptions about your "messiah". We the People are a big part of the problem. The politicians reflect our own poor behavior and inability to work together. I agree with Obamacare, but I agree with you too. I would have been much happier with it if it had more Republican support. I think the parties should have come together and both added to a major healthcare reform. Instead one party did all they could to stop it and the other pushed it through any way they could. Can't you agree both sides are in the wrong?

Camy I will agree that politicians can be our worst but I have seen some of them as the best we have to offer (while not in front of a camera). I think we can both agree that term limits for all congress, will allow fresh ideas in more consistently. Enough of this being a career,

That said, I disagree with your politics and I will continue to convince more voters that my ideas are the right ideas. Socialism has failed everywhere it is tried. As for social issues I think that is just another way of saying you are liberal. I will not waste my time with an adult who closes their eyes to reality, as harsh as it is.

Ummm, we aren't a Socialist country. Obama isn't a Socialist. Why do people keep saying that? Just because you have policies and opinions that help the American public as a whole, does not make a person a Socialist.

When I say that I am a Democrat for mostly social reasons, my two biggest reasons are marriage equality and womens' rights over her own body. If believing that makes me a liberal, then I am a liberal, and proud to be one. Based on that, you catagorize me as "an adult who closes her eyes to reality"? That is unfortunate. That would mean that you won't "waste your time" with about 50% of the American public. You think I close my eyes on reality? Look in the mirror. Whose eyes are closed? It seems you will only spend your time with people who argee with you. How will any progress ever be made?

Camy, just got back. No the country is not socialist, but Obama wants it to go in that direction..Obamacare was step one.. He believes in taking from one group and giving to another by legal force. This is not what this country was built on. It is what the Soviet Empire was built on.

And Camy any woman who is mainly voting for marriage equality and womens rights is quite telling. Gay marriage and abortion, in which case I oppose both. Abortion is simply the uneccessary termination of a baby's life. You and I will always be worlds apart...there is no compromise ZERO. Gay marriage...the states can decide. But the fact you support Obamacare is simply proof that you have not thought it through to the proper conclusion. Medical care will be rationed (as it is in Toronto and London). Mainly the simple stuff. This already happening, Candians have told us not to this...this is why they come here. And I have news for you as well, all the rich people will still have better medical coverage than us. Liberal or Conservative...they will be better off than those of us that have to live by this socialist mandate/tax. This is not my theory...this is history...it already has and is happening.

But obviously as a republican you liked Bush..Cheney...Santorum...Dent. Who? What republican ideals do you support if that one comment and the "slippery slope" moves you to the Dem column.. You are a Dem..you always have been...whether lying to this audience or to yourself...you were never a republican.

So then, why a comment and a link accusing white people of racism for not supporting Obama, which is essentially what Hutchinson says???

Obama wants to take us back to the USSR !!! Are you proud of your right to murder? If you want the truth on the Romney Ryan plan I think it would be a good idea to stop listening to the liars on the main stream media!

This comment is the result of what moveon.org and thinkprogress does to people. I would guarantee these two sites are visited daily by this person. Perhaps even mediamatters and keystoneprogress.

Yay!!!! an SEIU ad for Obama..Thank you Comrade Beth. Joellyn should be reported to the ministry and sent Gulag a go-go. Dasvidaniya, I will see you at the party meeting, you bring the hammer and I will grab a sickle

Mike, only the last link worked..FYI

Nahh, I just like the back and forth. Besides after a hard days work I like to sew what my neighbors are talking about.

Oh and as to Reagan..really he died? Wow, man I have been out of it. I hoped we cloned him.

I must type faster than you, this does not take much time at all

Carfardi was booted from Duquense because he is an Obama hack...Really please read your support material before you call it a fact. You are not a one issue voter, you are a one idea voter...Obama is all things...especially in your imagination. This boob has forced the Catholic religion to shuck all it socialist leanings because of Obamacare.

He had enough of the Catholic vote to win the election, but he just crapped on their dogma, by forcing them to insure contraception, which is directly against the Church's dogma. Why...why did he do that...they voted huge for him.

Socialist always belittle religion, because there can never be anything bigger or more important than the monolithic government bureaucracy. Obamacare for Medical rationing, Michelle-care to make sure I eat right.. Bloomburg care to make sure I don't have a BigGulp.

Biden is a liar just like his Marxist boss

Well at least he is not flip flopping.

So?